From Rural Mexico to Cybersecurity Success: Estela Baca’s Inspiring Career Journey | Ep037

What does it take to transform from a farm girl in rural Mexico to a cybersecurity solutions engineer at a leading tech company? In this episode, Estela Baca shares her remarkable journey of defying expectations, overcoming setbacks, and building a thriving career in technology.

Estela’s story begins in Teziutlán, Mexico, where she grew up with her grandmother in a family where education wasn’t expected for women. After moving to Los Angeles at 15 without speaking English, she navigated high school, earned a computer science degree (while pregnant), and eventually found her way into cybersecurity through marketing and technical roles.

Key Topics Discussed:
– Early Life and Foundation
– Educational Journey
– Career Development
– Professional Growth Strategies
– Cybersecurity Transition
– Life Lessons and Philosophy
– Networking and Community

Key Quotes:
– “Action conquers fear”
– “Every time somebody tells me no, something switches in my brain”
– “I refuse to call it imposter syndrome. It’s the real deal syndrome”
– “You can literally start as a marketer and end up as a VP if you understand transferable skills”

Resources Mentioned:
– “The DevelopHer Playbook” by Lauren Hasson
– “Be So Good They Can’t Ignore You” by Cal Newport
– Google Analytics and digital marketing certifications
– Local networking groups and tech communities

About the Guest:
Estela Baca is a Solutions Engineer specializing in cybersecurity and log management. She leads employee resource groups, volunteers in her local tech community, and mentors others looking to break into technology. Her expertise spans digital marketing, technical account management, and cybersecurity solutions.

Connect with Estela:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/estela-baca-07b02b6b/

Episode Highlights:
This conversation offers practical insights for anyone considering a career change, breaking into tech, or looking to advance in cybersecurity. Estela’s story demonstrates that non-traditional backgrounds can become significant advantages when combined with determination, strategic thinking, and continuous learning.

Whether you’re just starting your career journey or looking to make your next move, this episode provides actionable strategies for professional growth, relationship building, and turning challenges into opportunities.

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Available on all major podcast platforms. New episodes release every Tuesday featuring real conversations with technology professionals who share their career journeys, lessons learned, and practical advice for professional success.

Manuel: Welcome everyone, my name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads where each episode I basically hit the refresh button, bring on a different guest to really learn more about their background and their experiences, to help uncover any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. So for today’s episode, I have with me Estela Baca and I had followed her on LinkedIn, saw a lot of the posts, a lot of what she was doing, kind of dug into her background. Eventually I reached out to her and she was very gracious and decided to come on and share her experiences. So I’m very excited, she has a very interesting background, there’s a lot of challenges there and there’s gonna be a lot of good information and a lot of good storytelling for you to kind of listen and learn along the way. So with that, I’ll go ahead and introduce Estela.

Estela: Hi, Manny.

Manuel: Hello. Again, I appreciate you coming in and talking about your experiences and kind of how you’ve managed your career over time. So if you wouldn’t mind just telling us kind of what your current role is and some of those responsibilities and we’ll take it from there.

Estela: Perfect, sounds good. Well, again, Estella Baca, I am currently a solutions engineer for a company that does log management or what some of the people call a SIEM. And some of the main things that I do on a daily is talk to our customers, find their pain points. And for those of you that don’t know what a log management tool is, everything that we use nowadays produces a log. There’s data everywhere, right? Or cell phones or a fit watches, even the TV shows that we watch, right? Everything has data. So the power of data comes when knowing how to leverage that data. So that’s where our SIEM tool comes in. And sometimes before you buy a product, you have to talk to somebody to kind of let them know exactly what is it that you’re looking for. And so that’s where my role comes in, right? My role is mainly talk to our customers and find out what is it that they’re looking for, what problems are they trying to solve in a day to day, how do they manage those massive amounts of data that they have. And in a nutshell, pretty much I helped them discover do they have a small problem, a bigger problem? And realistically, how do they turn their problems into nothing but solutions to get their data and do the most they can with it and grow their businesses, right? Or solve the problems in the long run. My specialty is in cybersecurity. Nevertheless, I do help a lot of our customers to bring in our data for business operations, IT management, application development, and even the IT of things. So it’s just the funny thing about data. You can bend it, twist it, turn it, whatever. It almost reminds me of that game we used to have back in the days, they bump it, twist it, turn it, bump it. And our platform is a lot like a Lego piece, right? So you have a big platform where you have your Lego sets and you can build whatever you want with it. You can have a big city or you can probably have a scene from Star Wars. It’s just what do you wanna do with that data? That’s the easiest way I can think about it. And so my job is to come in and talk to our customers, make them feel comfortable and make them feel like they can find a solution they need with our products.

Manuel: I like the way that you kinda analyze it and kind of explain that for people who may, again, may not be familiar with what a SIEM tool or understanding that everything has a log, right? There’s data and everything. So now I’d like to go back and really kind of understand where you grew up and then eventually kind of what led you into technology and kind of what your first experiences were with technology and kind of made you continue on down that path.

Estela: So I originally was born and raised in Mexico in a tiny town called Teziutlan, which I’m gonna say it in our language, Tesiútio te Petzintla, is in Puebla in Mexico. And so our town is a very small town, my family. I come from a very large family. The people in my family did not go to school. My grandmother doesn’t know how to read. I think my dad only went to middle school. My mom barely made it to, I think, like sixth grade, right? And so education was not a thing for us, especially being a female our role as being a homemaker and a mother. And so when I was growing up, I grew up with my grandmother, which was great. I think we call her, some people call her Dr. Grandma. But to the point, I grew up with my grandmother and my mom loved reading. My mom and my dad loved reading. And if there’s one thing I do remember for the short period of time that I lived with my parents is we used to always read at night. And I was a small, I was probably two, three years old. And I think very vaguely, I remember that the thing we used to do together as a family was go to bed and not watch TV because we didn’t have money for TV, let’s be honest. And so we will grab books, right? And I didn’t know how to read, but my mom had her book, my dad had her book, but I do remember seeing them reading all the time. And so when I moved with my grandmother, we had this huge collection of encyclopedias. Back in the 80s, encyclopedias were like that thing to have, right? It’s like having a dictionary, like having an iWatch today, everybody had one, right? It’s a need. And so my grandmother to me, because I was very hyperactive, I have always been a talker. And so if I didn’t have something to do, I’ll be bouncing off the walls. Or I’d be like, “Grandma, do this, do that.” She didn’t have the time for that. So she will say, or if she would find me sitting on the couch and I was bored, she’d be like, “Oh, you’re bored?” And I’d be like, “Yeah, okay, go pick up that encyclopedia and read something.” And I’d be like, “Oh my God.” And so I was afraid to ever say I was bored because either it was either you go read or you go clean something. And so I was like, “Oh, I sometimes have a much rather clean than read, but it will depend, right?” And so it was through that that my grandmother, my grandmother, my mom and my dad taught me that reading was a scape goat, right? Like if you didn’t wanna just do something bad, like I didn’t wanna do the dishes, I will definitely read that encyclopedia. But then if I didn’t wanna read that encyclopedia, I will go and clean up something. So nowadays if I’m really stressed out, I either read or I clean. (both laughing) I don’t know but it always happens, right? And so while I was growing up, I hear a lot of kids, their parents talk about when you’re gonna go to college or when you go to college. That wasn’t even in my books. I mean, first of all, I never thought I was smart enough. Second of all, female, like what am I gonna do in school, right? And so growing up with my grandmother, she taught me how to be a farmer, right? Like we had chickens and pigs and I was like, “Oh, my life is gonna be, I’m gonna be a farmer. I’m gonna have some chickens. I’m gonna have some pigs and children.” I don’t know. But I will be a really good farmer because I was really good with pigs, right? So a little did I know when my mother left me with my grandmother, she migrated to the US, right? And so my mom always had it in the back of her head. She wanted me to go to a university, right? I didn’t know that. She had a plan, I didn’t. And so when I was around 15 years old and of course you start thinking, “Life is good, I can be rebel.” I know it all, right? And so my grandmother was like, “I need you to do this.” And I was already, “I don’t wanna say revolting, but you don’t wanna listen to grandma. You know best, right?” And I was like, “Grandma, just leave me alone. I’m not gonna go to school.” Like my aunt’s already told me, “I’m not good enough. You already know I’m the only good thing. The only good thing I do is take care of the chickens and I listen to you and I can do everything else.” And she was like, “Well, here’s the thing. A little caveat. Mom is taking you.” And I’m like, “What do you mean mom is taking me?” She was like, “Yeah, like she got a green card and in the process she got you a green card.” And I’m like, “Oh God, that doesn’t sound very fun.” I didn’t know what a green card was, but apparently it was a big deal. Now I understand it, right? So my mother worked for the same company for 10 years. Manny, not a single raise. You know how much my mother was getting paid at the time for 10 years? $2 an hour. $2 an hour. And she was literally living with several people to be able to save money for the green card, send money for me, and sacrifice everything she had for me to come and live with her. I didn’t know any of this. This is happening behind the scenes. All I know is I’m left with my grandma. I’m not gonna have future. Who cares? I’m gonna be a happy farmer, right? And so when I turn 15, my mom takes me over to LA and I’m like, “Okay, great. This sucks.” Let’s be honest. I don’t speak the language. I don’t think I’m smart enough to go anywhere past probably what I said, junior high. And I get to my mom’s house and she said, “Well, congratulations. You’re gonna go to high school. You’re gonna speak another language. And by the way, when you turn 18, you’re gonna go to college.” And I was like, “Oh God, this is bad.” And I was like, “Do I have an option here?” And she said, “Yes, you have an option. You can go back with grandma, but I will not be sending a single penny to you.” And then I said, “How am I gonna survive?” She said, “Easy. Go get a job.” And I was like, “Oh God, that sounds like a bad idea.” So everything that she was telling me sounded like a bad idea all across, right? And so I was like, “Okay, I don’t have a choice.” So I called grandma, right? I was like, “Grandma, can I just come back home?” And she said, “No, I can’t afford to have you here, right? Like you don’t wanna listen to me.” And I was like, “I swear to you, I will clean it. We’ll cook whatever you want.” And she said, “No, no, no. Listen to what I’m telling you. I’m already old. What happens if I die? Then nobody’s gonna take care of you. Your mom did this for you. Like, take it on, right?” And I was like, “Okay.” And so I had a friend, which by the way he’s still my friend. I talked to him, I remember. I was like, “I don’t wanna go. You know, like this is terrible.” And then he said to me, “Do you know how many people wish they were in your shoes?” And I was like, “What?” In my shoes, like no family, my parents are divorced. Like I grew up with my grandmother and I’m thinking all these negative things, right? And he sits me down and he says, “Are you really not looking at the big picture?” He said, “Your mom got you a green card. Some of us are gonna have to work our tails big time to make it to the US and go to a university. You literally just have to cross. That’s all you have to do.” And I was like, “Oh my God, this.” And I’m like, “But I’m not smart enough. Like how am I gonna do this?” He said, “Yes, you are smart enough. The only thing is that you haven’t given it a thought.” And I was like, “Well, everybody says I’m not smart enough.” And he says, “Well, do you believe you’re not smart enough?” And at the time, I didn’t know what I believed. Honestly, I have always been told all my life what to do, when to do it, how to do it. So I’m like, “Okay, but I guess I’m just gonna go with my mom and she’ll tell me what to do.” And so when I moved to LA, my mom literally got to LA on the 4th of July. I went to school the 7th of July. I had no vacation. So she literally like dropped me off at school and I spoke zero English. She left me there with a pencil and a dollar. And she said, “When you’re done, you’re gonna go home in a bus.” And I was like, “Where?” Like, “I don’t even know where I am.” She said, “Figure it out. You’re gonna go home afterwards and you’re gonna take the bus every day.” And so I did that and then I didn’t have any vacations at all.

Manuel: And when she kind of dropped you off on the way to school, did she tell you, “Hey, pay attention to where we’re going. Hey, look at landmarks.” Because I’ve heard different stories. Like I had another guest on where he had to do something similar, but it was very much like, “Hey, pay attention to landmarks.” And then he was, when his mom dropped him off and said, “Figure it out,” she kind of stayed back and watched him and just to make sure if he could get by the first time. So for you, it was 100% just figure it out and become resourceful.

Estela: You know what’s so funny? Actually, probably she didn’t think about that because when I was living in Mexico, I started walking by myself since I was six years old. There was nobody to go drop me off to school. So I had to very quickly figure it out geographical locations. I had to be very aware of my surroundings. I had a technique and my grandma showed me this technique. She said, “When you walk, you grab to your back, you hold on to your backpack and you find the nearest woman that has a child with her. And you walk next to them, like if you’re a family and you don’t make eye contact, you just walk next to them. And when they walk and cross the street, you look both ways and all the way until you make it to school. If a male tries to approach you, you turn around and you hold on to the woman like if she’s your mother. And she used to tell me all these things. And I grew up with that instinct, right? Like, “This is what grandma said to do. This is what I will do.” So when my mother dropped me off like that, I don’t even think she gave it a thought because she knew that I was street smart and I was very aware of my surroundings and my geographical. The only thing she was more concerned about was, I need to make sure, I need you to make sure to be home by this time. That’s all. I don’t need to know how you got here. You just need to be home. I was like, “Okay.” So I remember the first time I walked into high school, I was already going to high school in Mexico and my mom also was very kind to send me to a private school in Mexico. It was very different from the high school in Mexico to LA because I come from a high school where we wear a uniform. As ladies, we have a specific way to sit down, a specific way to behave. You do not go to school looking like you just woke up. You do not talk back to the professors. You are very cordial with each other. And so I get to LA and it’s 360. Everybody goes to school however they want to. Professors are spoken to like, it was not very kind. And then it seems like everybody is angry and I’m just literally suffering every step of the way. Like I just want to go home, right? I don’t understand the language. And so I go back home and I tell my mom, “You know what? I don’t even think working for myself sounds bad. Send me back home. I don’t want to be here.” And she said, “Give it a thought because I am not sending you a single penny.” And I said, “Yep, I don’t care. I would much rather go work at the fabric. I don’t want to be here.” So I called my grandma again and my grandma says, “Didn’t I tell you I don’t want you here?” And it was just heart wrenching. I was like, “You don’t want me there?” And she was like, “No, I don’t. I need you to be with mom.” Little did I know later on I found out grandma said that it was the hardest thing she had to tell me that she didn’t want me there. That it was the only way she knew to cut the cord so to make sure that I went to do what I need to do, right? And so I was like, “Okay, fine. My grandma don’t want me. I guess I will stay with mom.” And so it was okay, right? Like I think I survived the first semester. I found new friends. It was great. And so I think when you find your group of people and you find your tribe is when you start realizing, “Okay, I’m not alone. I can do this, right?” I went to the group of ESL, which is all the people that come from other countries and learn the language. And in LA, the way it works, you have tracks. It’s A-track, B-track, and C-track because there’s so many people. So it’s in a rotation. So I was in C-track. So we used to go to school four months and then there was two months of vacation and then four months. Normal kids will have two months of vacations. I wouldn’t have normal kid. My mom said, “You’re gonna go to school in between and then you’re gonna go volunteer to your sister’s school.” And I was like, “What do I have to do that again?” She said, “Because you need to learn how to read.” So I literally learned to read with my sisters. My little sister at the time was four years old. So I used to go to her kindergarten to volunteer, to teach kids how to read. How funny is this Manny? I don’t know how to read. And I’m teaching these kids how to read and sounding the words. I don’t know how the letter S sounded, which I still have a problem with it. I didn’t know how to letter E sounded and yet I’m here teaching these kids. So it was a blessing that I could learn how to read with my sisters, right? Because my little sister at the time was four, the other one was seven. But I think it was between those times of going to volunteer and spending all that time in high school that by the time I graduated, I was fluent in English. I hated talking because every time I spoke, somebody will make the comment like, “Oh, how cute. You don’t know how to pronounce that.” And so when English is not your first language, you’re definitely going to feel bashful. You’re not going to want to talk, right? But then when I got to college, I was like, “Okay, I have an accent. It’s never going to go away. I’m just going to embrace it and lean into it, right?”

Manuel: I know that you’re kind of getting to the college part, but one of the things that I really want to ask, and again, also coming from Mexican parents, a lot of times they have good intentions, but there’s not, it’s a different generation. They don’t explain it all that. Like you mentioned, your grandmother was like, it was hard for her to tell you, I don’t want you. But my guess is the reason that they did this, and the same thing with your mom just dropping you off, is they saw something in you. They understood that you could do it. They didn’t know how to give you encouragement, or even just provide you that information to say, oh, you can do it. You’ve done it before. It’s just like when you were back home, hey, just follow the same things. You overcame those anyway, but do you feel that that is something that has helped you throughout your career? You know, and even just in life is knowing that you’ve picked up these skills, you’re very self-reliant, as opposed to having the encouragement of people saying, hey, you can do it, because it sounded like you had a lot of doubts, but as you’re kind of telling the story, I see you, hey, I picked up and here I am, teaching somebody else how to learn, how to read and speak a different language, as you’re doing it yourself. So, I see a theme of learning on your own, but then kind of teaching and figuring that out. So, I’m just curious if that’s something you’ve given thought to or just kind of understanding how you kind of reflect back on that now.

Estela: Yeah, actually, it took me many years. I think it was until I had my own children that I realized the methodology they follow to make sure that I discovered my own skills was not the nicest, yet it worked for me, right? And so, now that I talk about it with my mom and with my grandma, we have those conversations, right? And my mom says, the thing is, since you were little, you never allowed me to feed you. Like, I will try to feed you with a spoon and you will slap my hand. I will try to teach you how to walk and you will slap my hand, like, let me do it. So, I got to a point where, like, I understood that was you. You got angry and rage you when I will try to baby you. Yet, when grandma will do it, you will cuddle. Or yet, when you wanted to do something, you will do the same thing, like, get out of my way, I’m gonna do it. She said, so, your grandma and I understood since you were little, that that’s who you are. Like, when you are in working mode, people need to get out of the way and move. And no, because you don’t want help is because that’s the way you internalize the way that you’re gonna think things through. And that was the only way we knew how to raise you. And then I think about it now, and I’m like, yeah, I could be a little bit hard-headed when I’m in the mood, right? When my professor says that he thought of me and it sounds harsh, but then I think about it, the analogy he used, he said, I think of you as a donkey. I thought he was insulting me. I was like, how dare you call me a donkey? He said, no, no, this is why. He says, I feel like you are like a donkey because everybody thinks that a donkey is stupid and they’re not, they’re very resilient animals. Once you put a load in the donkey and you move the donkey, that donkey will not stop until they get to where they need to be. And then, and until then, they will unload and be okay. That’s how you are. And I was like, oh yeah, he’s kidding. And then the older I get, I’m like, you know what? It is true, but the way I see it now is, yeah, it was unorthodox and everything, but it worked for me. It really did. And so I always tell my mom and my grandma, I couldn’t have asked for anything better, you know? I got the good traits from my dad of like the talker. He’s the talker and the storyteller and the joker. And then I got the very serious side from my mama and the hard worker. And then I got the very caring and loving side from my grandmother. So I feel like the three of them gave me the best thing. They could have given me foundations to be who I am today. Probably wasn’t the economical side, but then personality-wise, I think they equipped me to do everything that I wanna do now, right? And then when you’re talking about like how I feel about teaching someone else in the process, guess what, that’s what I do for a living Manny. It’s incredible that everything that I have done since I was born till now has brought me full circle to who I am today. I truly enjoy teaching my customers what they need to do, even though I don’t even know what we’re doing. And in this world and age where everything is changing and is digital and everything is brand new and artificial intelligence is coming through and then we have machine learning. And guess what, we’re all learning at the same time. So what does it take? A little bit of bringing down your ego, leaning on each other, not pretending that you know what you’re doing, but having the kindness and the courage to say, I need help, can I help you? Can you help me? Let’s learn this together and move forward. It’s incredible. Those foundations that I had as a child are really what truly are supporting me nowadays in my career.

Manuel: And it’s interesting, like you said, you don’t realize it at the time that that’s happening, but eventually you start to see bits and pieces like, oh, oh, that’s right, this equipped me for this. Or hey, I didn’t know at the time. So for example, when I was younger, I used to love to take apart electronics. Like my mom’s blender would break, you know, the chain on the bicycle would fall apart. And it wasn’t just like, oh, let me take apart the piece that is broken. Like I would disassemble everything because I wanted to know how it worked. And to this day, it’s still, like you said, AI technology, like I’m not disassembling it, but I’m understanding like, how does this work? Okay, I get all the pieces and then my dad would get mad sometimes. Alright put it together and I was like, that’s not the part that interested me. I didn’t want to put it back to get into work. I just, I want to know all the pieces and say, oh, okay, good enough. I mean, it’s broken anyway, like next, and just continue to do that. And, you know, a lot of her encouraging me to go, oh, she later on would tell me that she could see that I had that curiosity of I wanted to see. And also it would keep me busy instead of me running around. And she was like, hey, here, okay, great. And just, and take things apart. And now I like dissecting that and helping other people understand like, oh, here’s what I understand. Again, I don’t claim to be an expert, but similar to you. I’ve discovered that passion of like, oh, I have a general understanding. Here’s what I think, understand, and then go to you and maybe you have more of that knowledge and help me fill in those gaps to put it back together and say, okay, I got it. So you’re understanding how you learn, you’re picking up all these things and it sounds like you decided maybe to go to college or you’re at least considering it at this point?

Estela: Oh no, this isn’t a decision. This is in my mom’s house, there’s no democracy. This is a dictatorship and you’re going. And so I think the coolest thing about my mom too is pushy and to the point. And so she said, you know what, what are you good at? And we looked at my grades and everything in my grades said, you’re good at math and I was really good. It was really good at math. And then of course, the Spanish was my natural language, so it was okay, right? So she says, you know what, let’s go talk to your counselor and see if we can get you out of 10th grade. And I’m thinking, what, I’m gonna skip a grade? She said, you’re 17, we have no time. You need to be 18 and go to college. And I was like, okay, let’s do it. So they gave me the test and sure enough, I exited out of like some of the major classes and I skipped 10th grade. So I did nine, 11 and 12, which was very nice. So by the time I get to the 12th grade, I have already been, she put me into like after school classes to do the PSAT and the ACT, which I didn’t know what they were, but I talked to my counselor, I became really close to my counselor because of one of my cousins. So one of my cousins, her dad is an attorney and she was very kind to explain to me what it was because she part of her life, she had already been in LA before me. So she understood the system, I didn’t. So my cousin, by the way, shout out to my cousin Grisel. (laughs) She was very nice to explain to me what a counselor was, how I needed to get help, what FAFSA was. For those of us that didn’t have the money to go to college, right, but we had the grades. And then she said, you know what? You’re gonna get a full scholarship. And I was like, me? Are you kidding me? She’s like, look at your grades. Sure enough, Manny, I was acing algebra and geometry. I was acing English and all the classes, I think my lowest grade, you won’t believe it. I literally got an F.

Manuel: In Spanish?

Estela: No, no, this is gonna be funny. It was physical education, PE. And you know why I got an F?

Manuel: No

Estela: I refused to sit on the hot floor. This is LA and we’re talking about one of the heat waves that we had in LA and it was really hot. And our professor said, Marias, sit on the floor. First of all, you don’t call me Maria, my name is Estela. Second of all, I am not gonna sit on the floor, it’s really hot. And so I stood there and he goes, oh, I forgot you don’t speak English. So he told me in Spanish, sit on the floor. And I turned around and said, I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but Maria is not my name. And second of all, I am not gonna sit on the floor. He said, if you don’t sit on the floor, I will flunk you this month. I said, go ahead, do it. And so I went home and I told my mom, mom, I didn’t sit on the floor, expect an F. And she was mad at me. She said, you should have done it. I said, mom, feel the floor here. It was three times hotter. I am not gonna do it. And she said, okay, let’s see what happens. Sure enough, he did fail me that month, but I already told my mom. Oh, that was fun to see from my mother. Yeah, so not only did he do that, he put a mocking t-shirt on me, which at the time I think it was the way that some teachers used to do it. And I’m not criticizing him. I think the education has changed a lot back from like when I went to high school to now. I probably feel like maybe the teacher felt bad afterwards, you know, but he put this really ugly, smelly t-shirt on me. And that did it for my mom. The next day she took me to school and she sat in that office until the principal saw us. And the principal was like, what’s the problem? She said, I wanna talk to you about what happened to my daughter. And so the principal was like thinking I was probably one of those like really bad kids or whatever. My mom is like, you don’t understand. My daughter is a straight A student. She comes to school every day. You can check her records. So for you guys to treat her that way, it’s incredibly bad. And so the principal goes, oh, sure, sure. Your daughter is a great daughter. So pull her records. So he pulls the records and he sees that I’m number six in a class of 250. I’m in line to get a scholarship to a private school, which is very hard to do. I was gonna go to the University of La Verne full ride. And so our principal starts apologizing. My mom says, you’re lucky. And then she goes through this whole thing. So there she was gonna do to him. And my face is red like, oh my God, mom, please stop.

Manuel: You’re embarrassing me.

Estela: You’re embarrassing me, stop it. Bottom line is this, my mother will go to war for me anywhere. Yes, she doesn’t have the education. But one thing she does know is you do not treat her daughter that way. You do not, nobody yells at my daughter but me, okay? She got that right. Anyway, so after that, I remember I got the grades back up. That F got removed, it went to a C, it was perfectly fine. So that was the only time that I had an F, right? And so after that, when I got to college and everything, I remember the day that I graduated, she looked at me and she said, I was like, mom, are you proud of me? She said, this isn’t college yet. What are you so happy about? I was like, mom, but this is it. She said, no, no, no, this is the beginning of it. The day that you give me a diploma from your school that says I have a bachelor degree, we will celebrate. Until then, this is just break time. You have a month to do a break time, come back and do it all over again.

Manuel: And it’s interesting to see the dynamic of her going through and understanding that she, like you said, she’ll fight for you when it’s due, right? Like, hey, that’s a lack of respect and you’re not gonna do that. And at the same time, I don’t wanna say it’s kind of keeping you humble, but just making you understand that she saw more for you, right? It wasn’t that she wasn’t proud, but it’s just understanding that, hey, okay, this is just the beginning. We’re not gonna celebrate this small little milestone. Like, here’s the end goal. You’re barely here. Like, why are we gonna celebrate now? Like, we’re celebrating early, right? Because I remember that was a thing that my dad would do. Like, oh, you know, like you would get close. Ah, you know, we’ve got to, no, you’re not done. I played a lot of sports. The game’s not over, right? And that’s the analogy that I see with your mom, is the game’s not over. You’re barely starting until we get to the–

Estela: This is warmup.

Manuel: Yeah, this is the warmup. Okay, yes, you did really good. You accomplished a lot, but in her mind, those are table stakes. I know that you can do that. It’s go beyond that. Go and do more than any of us currently have. So I’ll let you continue on. And now it sounds like you went on to college.

Estela: I did. It was a full scholarship for the University of La Verne, which was very nice. And so the first year I was there, she asked me, “So what are you gonna major on?” Literally, I had no idea what I was gonna do. And again, going back to my friend, I called him and I said, “Eric, what am I gonna do? Like, I am so lost. What am I gonna do?” And he says, “Why are you lost? What are you good at?” And I’m like, “I hate English. I am bad at it. I don’t wanna talk to nobody. I want something that is gonna give me good money that literally I can just use math.” He said, “Bingo, computer science.” And I said, “What do you mean? Me as scientist? Like you’re kidding, okay?” And he goes, “Oh, let me guess. You wanna be a teacher.” And I was like, “I just wanna finish this.” And he was like, “No, do me a favor.” He goes, “Let’s go together, go to the library and get a…go into, at the time I don’t remember what the search engine used to be called. I don’t remember if it was Google or not.” But he said, “Do a review of all the careers that within the next 10 years are gonna grow when it comes to income. And then see which one is gonna give you more money.” Pick at least two or three, right? Whatever you wanna do, dance instructor, nurse, whatever you pick, but do not forget to put the computer science one in there. I did that myself and within the next 10 years, I’m gonna be making a lot more money than if I was a teacher. And I was like, “Okay, I’ll do it.” I went back, “Oh yeah, I like those numbers.” I’m a numbers person and I was like, “Ooh, I like that.” I mean, by the time I graduate, you mean to tell me I can make $40,000? I mean, we’re talking about when we’re 20, whoa, $40,000 is a lot, hello? And I was like, “This is nice.” And he was like, “Another thing you have to do “that is math, that’s it. “And you have to take some coding classes.” I’m like, “I have never coded in my life.” He goes, “It’s not a big deal. “Trust me, you’ll pick it up.” And I was like, “I don’t have a computer.” He says, “It’s called a computer lab. “You have one.” And I was like, “Okay, fine.” So I applied for the computer science department. They take me in and sure enough, I take all of my major classes within the first year. By the end of the first year, I had to take a public speaking class, get in love with it, felt in love with it. The professor had a way to make me speak without feeling so self-conscious. I was starting to know how to construct sentences better. I didn’t feel so antsy anymore. I’m like, “I like talking. “Why am I in computer science?” And so I’m thinking, I’m just gonna go and change my major from computer science to public speaking. So I go and talk to my mom and my mom. I don’t think this is my calling and I think I’m gonna go, she turns around and she goes, “Excuse me? “What did you just say to me?” And I was like, “It’s not my calling.” She said, “You know what your calling is? “You start something and you finish. “You wanna be a public speaker? “Do it on your dime.” I said, “Mom, but you’re not.” She goes, “You started, you finished.” And I was like, “Okay.” So I went back, literally that was my face. So I went back and I thought, my mom doesn’t understand me. I’m gonna go talk to the chairman of the public speaking class, right? And so our professor was very honest with me. He said, “You know what? “I love your enthusiasm. “What’s your major?” And I said, “Computer science.” So he pulls up my transcripts and he goes, “You already did a lot of the classes. “You know, you already knocked out “a lot of the main classes. “Why do you wanna change?” And I said, “Because I love speaking.” And he starts laughing and he goes, “Oh, honey, that is not enough excuse.” He said, “I’m gonna give you an advice. “Your accent is terrible, terrible.” So for you to change your major to public speaking and let all of these good grades go to waste will be very bad of me as an advisor to tell you do it. So how about this? How you continue with computer science, continue developing your speaking abilities because everybody needs a speaker one day. And guess what? Where you’re going, you’re gonna need to know how to talk. In the back of my head, he didn’t click because I’m like, “I’m gonna be a developer. “I don’t need to talk.” And then of course I’m angry with my mom. I’m angry with him and I say, “You will forget it. “I’m just gonna leave it. “Who cares?” But while I’m doing this, I make friends with the international students in our school. So we have students coming in from Africa and Spain and France and Germany. I hang around a lot more with the international students than with the US students. And guess what? I get the itch to go study abroad. And so I tell my mom, “I wanna go study abroad next year.” And she said, “So what do you want me to do?” I said, “Do we have money?” She said, “No.” “You wanna go find the funds?” I said, “Okay, I will find the funds.” So I remember talking to the study abroad professor. He said, “We have money for that. “What’s your GPA?” So he pulls my GPA, he said, “Covered.” All you have to do is apply for it, go through the interview process. If we like you, we bring you in. And also really, sure enough, by the second year I was in La Verna, I ended up at the University of Barcelona. So I did all of my social studies, political science, and then I had to do some kind of like filler classes. So I did a history of art. And I think it was religion, contemporary religions or something like that. It was so nice, I think, when I got into the program, my mom and I cried together because when I was little, one time I was reading an encyclopedia with my grandma, and the encyclopedia had this country that looked like a boot. I thought it was the coolest thing ever, that in the world there was a country that looks like a high-heeled boot, right? I’m a little girl and I love high heels, and it’s a boot. And I told my grandma, I think I was probably like seven or eight, I told her grandma, “Did you know there is a country that looks like a boot?” My grandma doesn’t know how to read it, right? And she says, “No kidding, where’s that at?” I said, “It’s called Italy.” She said, “But where’s that at?” I said, “I have no idea, grandma, somewhere on the other side of the world. Do you know what, grandma? One day I’m gonna go visit that place.” You know what my grandmother said? She said, “If that’s what you want, may the Lord take you there.” Because my grandma is very religious, so she will always say that to me. “If that’s what you want, may the Lord take you there.” So when I applied for the University of Barcelona, I was out there, and guess what was the first country that I visited?

Manuel: Italy.

Estela: Kid you not. When I landed in Italy, I cried my eyes out. I remember that seven-year-old reading that encyclopedia.

Manuel: I’m very curious, so was your grandmother still around? I know that you and your mom, were you able to go back and kind of let her know? Or either send her something from there and just–

Estela: Yeah, so my grandmother is still alive. So when I was going, I was like, “Grandma, guess what?” And she was like, “What?” I said, “I gotta accept it to Barcelona.” She said, “Where is that at?” So I have to explain the whole geography to her, right? She said, “Ay que bueno.” “Thank God.” And she starts saying her prayers. And then I said, “But guess what?” “You know what’s even better, Grandma?” She said, “What?” I said, “I am gonna get to see the country that looks like the little boot.” She said, “Is that the one you used to talk about when you were little?” I said, “Yes, Grandma.” She said, “When you get there, take those pictures, eat all the food you can, and when you come back, you tell me what it was like.” And I was like, “Sure enough.” So I remember when I got there, I think I gained like five, 10 pounds just by being in Italy alone, because it was so much good food. But I remember I called my mom crying, and I was like, “You know what, Mom? This is by far the best thing ever.” And she said, “You know what? You were about to give up.” And this is just the beginning. She said, “This is just barely starting. Imagine how much more can you do.” And I was like, “Yeah, whatever.” So I came back, finished. It was so nice. Like I came back from Barcelona. I came back, my mom was like, “You know what? While you were gone, I think you came back a lot stronger. I think I finally see that you’re coming through.” So I went through my third year. I was in my fourth year of college, (laughs) and life happens. And so we’re like in the last semester of school, and I have to do my senior project, and we’re prepping for senior project. One of our professors used to work for Boeing at the time, and he starts talking to me and my best friend about possibly interning with Boeing. He picks three candidates from the group every year, and he talks to me, my best friend, and another two people, which means he’s encouraging us to apply, right? Well, life happens and guess what, Manny? No Boeing for me. I become a mom.

Manuel: Wow. (both laugh) Little bit of a detour.

Estela: Oh, a little bit of a detour. My mother was up in arms. I’m pretty sure my entire family did not talk to me for about a year. It was just devastating. I was doing this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I was going everywhere and come on, college, Boeing, hello? No, mom. And it was detour all the way.

Manuel: Well, and especially because a lot, I mean, there’s two sides of it, right? Most people that go to college, they get those internships that eventually are able to go through and start working right afterwards. And there’s the other half, and that’s the half that I’m in, is that we just think that I don’t have to do that because once I graduate, I have a college degree. People are just gonna want me, and that’s not the case. So I’m assuming that, I don’t want to assume, I’m gonna ask you. So then you find out you get pregnant, but you’re towards the end. So then were you able to still kind of do part of the internship or is it you have to turn down the internship, continue school, and then figure it out on your own at that point?

Estela: So life is really funny. The beginning of my pregnancy was a high-risk pregnancy, and so I go to the doctor, and the doctor tells me, “Well, I’m gonna ask you a question. “You’re very young. “What do you have to do during the next nine months?” And I say, “You know what, I’m working in my senior project. “There’s gonna be a lot of work, a lot of late nights, “a lot of not eating, a lot of running.” And I’m talking a physical running. You know what I’m talking about. Late nights at the lab, and then he said, “Well, you have a choice to make right now. “You are four weeks pregnant, “so we can terminate the pregnancy, “and you can go back to your normal life “because it’s a high-risk pregnancy.” Any little stress that you have with this baby, baby’s out. And I’ll say, “What are you saying?” He says, “It’s either that “or you continue with the pregnancy but not school.” And so I’m weighing it, right? I’m thinking, “Okay, so I want my baby, “but I also wanna go to school, but I want my baby.” And I thought, “Okay, you know what, forget it. “I’m just gonna take the baby.” And so I said, “No, don’t do it. “I’ll stay off my feet.” He goes, “Okay, you have to do that.” And so it was really hard for me because it was shattering my mom’s dreams. It was shattering everything that my mom had worked for, my family, but I wanted my baby. I was so in love with my baby, and he was only four weeks, but I was so deeply in love with him. I was like, “No, I’m not gonna let it go. “I can always go back to school. “I’ve known people that have finished school “even afterwards, this isn’t it.” So yeah, of course, I went through pregnancy. It was very difficult, whatever. Got married and everything. And then, probably my kid was about one and a half, and I get the itch. I gotta get back to school. And so I’m living in New Mexico, and I start looking for funding. I call my mom and I say, “Mom, can you help me with this? “I just need this amount of money to do a small payment. “I don’t have it, but can you help me?” Because I already got the scholarship. I got a backup plan for my son. The state is gonna pay me for it because I have the grades. They’re gonna pay for him to go to daycare. She says, “You’re going back to school?” I say, “Yes, this is all I need.” She said, “Yeah, given, go for it.” Sure enough, I went and talked to the University of New Mexico, I talked to the counselor, and he said, “You know what? “You’re gonna have to be here two more years.” Oh man, I’m like, “I can’t do two more years. “I need a semester.” Give me, explain to me why it helped me understand. He says, “Well, you have to do a lot of,” and he starts talking and then he looks at me. He says, “You don’t have two years, do you?” I say, “No, I don’t.” What can we do? He said, “Okay, let’s look at your transcripts.” Thankfully, I had taken so many accounting classes and then social studies classes and then international business classes. When I went to Barcelona, he says, “I have an idea. “Let’s get you a double major.” And what you do is you do side-by-side classes with computer science and business, and we get you a major in computer science with a minor in business administration and we get you out of here in a year. I said, “Let’s do it.” He said, “You do realize this is gonna have to be “double the amount of credits.” I said, “Yes, I do.” He said, “You have to take six classes “to seven classes per semester.” I said, “I understand that.” He said, “Aren’t you a mom?” I said, “What’s your question?” He said, “Are you sure?” I said, “Yeah, let’s do it.” And so sure enough, I went and did it. The first semester went peachy, no problem. You know what was the hardest part? Leaving my kid at daycare. Not because of the kid. It was me. I walked out of there crying. I did not want to detach from him. I didn’t know how to do that, and I’m like, “Oh my God, I’m just gonna be a stay-at-home mom. “Forget it, I don’t have to go back.” And then I thought, “Wait a minute. “What am I gonna do when my kid wants to go to school “and I have no money? “Okay, I have to go back to school.” So I did the first semester, it was fine. The second semester, that was a challenge. Because in order for me to get my last semester, I needed to do a finance class that required a pre-finance class. So my counselor said, “You’re gonna have to convince the professor to let you in, ’cause if he doesn’t give the approval, you don’t graduate.” “You have to do another year just for that one class.” I was like, “Oh my God, here we go.” So I went to talk to a professor. Very smart guy, and he was very honest with me. He said, “You know what? “I’m gonna let you in, and I know I’m gonna flunk you.” He goes, “Be ready. “You’re not graduating this semester.” And I said, “Why, would you say that to me?” He said, “I’m being brutally honest.” He said, “I have people that have taken pre-finance “and they take this class, “and they don’t make it out of my class. “You haven’t taken it? “I know you’re gonna fail, “but if you wanna be here another year, go for it.” I said, “But you let me in?” That’s all I heard. All I heard was you’re letting me in. (both laugh)

Manuel: Heard what you wanted to hear.

Estela: I have selective hearing. I’m sorry, if I want something, I’m not gonna ask you, I’m gonna get it. And I got what I wanted. I wanted in, I got in. I didn’t hear, no, I heard, you’re in. I was like, “I got in.” And so I get in and I have no book. (laughs) Because I couldn’t buy it. And nobody wanted to be on my team. Everybody already had a team. And for the last project, you have to do a business plan. And he looks at me, he said, “You ready for your F?” And I told him, “Are you ready to let me pass?” He said, “We’ll see.” So I went through the business classes or whatever. I did everything I need to do. I handed him over my business plan at the end. And then when he looked at it, he said, “You did this by yourself?” I said, “Yep.” He said, “Hmm, okay.” I said, “So?” He said, “Well, you have a C.” I said, “See, I told you.” (both laugh) I told you. He said, “You’re not upset that it’s not an A.” All I needed to do was pass.” I didn’t even care. You could have given me a D, I don’t care. I passed. And his name was Dr. Little. He said, “Wow, you are gutsy.” He said, “Honestly, I was ready to give you an F the moment you walked in. And because you were so eager to do it, I just wanted to have fun and see if I could flunk you.” And I said, “You know what? In all I heard, you were in. That’s all I heard.” He was okay.

Manuel: It’s very interesting because, you mentioned before, how you were as early as with your grandmother, right? You were rebellious and you would, you know, kind of like, nope. You would go through and having some of these other instructors that said, “No, like, I’m gonna do this no matter what. Like, I don’t care. I’m gonna get to that end result.” Even though at times you kind of, you celebrated early. “Hey, I’m done. I graduated high school.” And I think there’s two types of people. And there’s usually, there’s two types of people that you encounter along the way, right? So there’s the people that kind of need the encouragement because, you know, and it sounds like you’ve had both, both encounters in both situations. There’s the time where you felt, you couldn’t do it. You weren’t good enough. And you had someone that says, “No, yes, you can.” And kind of push you and encourage you. And then at the same time, you had those same people that are like, “You can’t do it. You know, like, why even try?” And you kind of said, “Watch me. I’m going to do it.” Is that something that, you know, up until this point and even kind of past that, do you, does it depend on the situation? Or do you think that over time you slowly developed kind of the confidence to say, “Okay, I used to think that I couldn’t do it, but I’ve done it enough times that now you start to believe it. You’re like, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I think I can. I think I can, I can, I’m going to.” Like, is that kind of the progression that’s happened?

Estela: I think there’s a progression in there, but I think what really happens in my head Manny is once I hear a no, something switches in my brain. When somebody tells me no, you can’t have it. No, you can’t do it. No, it won’t be for you. The other side of my brain says, “Watch me.” Every time. And so when somebody tells me no, I don’t get discouraged. I always think, okay, there has to be a way that you’re going to tell me yes. Or no, it’s a no again. It’s okay, I’ll come look again. Oh, but it’s a no, oh, trust me. Next time you will be there when asking me not to leave. And so every time I see that situation, right? And along the way, I’m not going to say that there’s no doubt in it. I don’t, I refuse to call it imposter syndrome. I don’t like the word. And I actually went to a summit last year. Currently where I work for two years, I led our employee resources group for Latinx community called Somos. And so our company sent us to a summit where we encounter a life coach. And this life coach couldn’t have said it better. I had never liked the word imposter syndrome because I don’t believe that anyone of us is an imposter in your own life. I don’t have a second personality. I think we all have those moments where we don’t feel like we are someone, but I don’t think we’re imposters. I think we’re just in denial probably. But she called it the real deal syndrome. And I was like, the real, I like that. She said, her name is Dr. Berry, by the way, she’s a great leader and coach. Dr. Berry said, there’s something called the real deal behavior, where you sit in a room and you may feel like you do not fit. Where you sit in a room and not everybody looks like you. Where you sit in a room and you cannot believe you’re even standing there. It’s not you’re an imposter. It’s like, this is the real deal. Holy cow, this is the real deal. I think from there on, I honestly, that’s what I identify myself with. I don’t believe that I ever suffer from imposter syndrome. I think I dealt with it. This is the real deal. Oh my God, this is the real deal. Life has hit me. Oh my God, this is the real deal. I am not gonna be in my country and I’m gonna move somewhere else. I got to college. Oh my God, this is the real deal. I made it, right? Graduated from college, landed a career. I wanted, this is the real deal. Whether you’re being in the real deal and life is just probably giving you the hardest character challenging situations, it is the real deal. We deal with that, right? But I refuse to call it the imposter syndrome. I think life is too short, too pretty, to think of myself as an imposter in a way. None of us could be an imposter in a place where you are your own protagonist, right? You sit in that chair, you step in this room, whether you are content, happy or fearful, you are there. It is the real deal, right? And so progression has been from not seeing who I am to I’m afraid and so what? I’m gonna go do it. It is the real deal.

Manuel: I like the way you phrase that and I’m definitely, I’m gonna look up and see if she has any talks or maybe even a book or something like that.

Estela: She does, Dr. Berry is amazing. I think she has coaching sessions every year. So yeah, look her up, she’s great.

Manuel: You pass your class, right? You defy the odds. I’m assuming at this time, you’ll probably also impress that professor. You graduate and then do you start kind of automatically? Do you also have another internship? How do we go through and now let’s go ahead and–

Estela: Oh, you’re gonna laugh.

Manuel: Estela’s gonna start her career now.

Estela: Oh yeah, it’s gonna be amazing. Guess what? Estela has a second child. (both laughing) Estela literally becomes the first female in her class to graduate as a pregnant woman in a class of nothing but males with a computer science degree.

Manuel: Wow.

Estela: Yep, so I walked that podium. I think I was seven, six months pregnant.

Manuel: So, while you were taking that finance degree, you were already pregnant.

Estela: Yep.

Manuel: So, did the instructor know? And is that another reason why he, like, thought that you couldn’t do it, or was it strictly…

Estela: Yes, exactly. That’s why everybody thought I couldn’t do it. Because I’m going through these classes, broke, pregnant, with another child already, and like, what is she gonna do? Oh watch me. This is what I’m going to do. So, when I went out there and received my degree, my mom went to my graduation, and she was laughing. She said, “I was laughing not because you were a joke to me. I was laughing because you turned around and you literally just didn’t even look at the odds.” You said, “Okay, fine. I’m gonna do it.” So, funny enough, when I was done with that, I waited for my child to be born. I was a stay-home mom for about five years, because to me, I didn’t have parents. And so, I learned very quickly that what I wanted for my children was what I couldn’t have. I wish I would have had family. I wish I would have had my mom at home. And so, I did that. I don’t regret it. I think my kids are probably the biggest life project I ever had. Whatever they decide to do with their life is perfectly fine it’s on them, right? But I feel like the first years of their life, I did everything I could to be loving, supporting, and there, right? And so, after my kids were… My son was about five or six, and my daughter was ready to go to daycare, so we moved to Las Vegas. That’s when Estela starts her career. I come to Vegas, and I go to an agency called Apple One at the time. I don’t know if they’re still around or not. And they pretty much help you find jobs, right? When you don’t have the experience or somebody that’s looking for, like, to give jobs to somebody that will get paid less, I didn’t know that in my head, right? In my head, I just needed an entrance. That’s all I needed. Again, back to it. I just need an entrance.

Manuel: They’re a staffing agency.

Estela: Exactly. That’s what they do. They’re a staffing agency. So they find me a job. At Telus International to do technical support for Google. And I was like, “Oh, yes.” Right? And so, they start training me to do digital marketing troubleshooting. This is back in the days around, like, 2012, 2013, when digital marketing was barely booming, and the ads were barely a thing, right? And so, the reason why they hired me is because I speak English and Spanish, and then I do have a computer science background, which was easier for them to teach me how to inspect HTML code and kind of, like, troubleshoot what they call now click tags to collect data analytics and all that, right? Perfect. It was wonderful. I learned a ton. The wonderful thing about it is that at the time when I was doing this, the program, they Google and Telus gave us a license for learning modules. So, while some people were able to just kind of relax during between breaks, I was taking those classes. I was taking classes for Google Analytics and SEO. By the way, I never became good at SEO. I tried, trust me, my respects to SEO managers. Whole new ballgame, right? But the one thing that I did learn was a lot about how Google Analytics was going to help the next generation of marketers, right? And so, here in Vegas, there used to be a company called SKG. It used to be one of the biggest marketing agencies. It was SKG and R&R Partners at the time. So, SKG at the time was looking for somebody to do digital marketing. Digital marketing at the time, you have your static ads and then you have something called a dynamic ad. The dynamic ad is feed. It has a feed that comes through a database and some concatenations in the background. So, you have to kind of know how the backend works for that, right? At the time, they told me they couldn’t find somebody that could do that. So, I went to the interview and I told them I knew how to do that because that’s what I was doing for troubleshooting plus my background in computer science. And so, during my interview, the director tells me, “So, what qualifies you for this?” I said, “You know what? It’s not so much about what qualifies me. I’m just going to tell you something. Hire me and I ask you to fire me in a week if I do not perform.” And she says, “Excuse me?” I said, “Yes. I’m not asking you to give me 30 days. I’m asking you to fire me on the spot in a week if I don’t perform.” She said, “You are that confident you can do that.” I said, “Yes, I am.” So, please, when do I start? She said, “Oh my God.” I said, “And I can explain to you exactly how this ad works in the backend and the frontend and how you get your analytics and how we’re going to…” She was like, “You know what? Okay, explain it to me.” So, the one thing I know that is very important for people is if you can explain something to someone, like if they were a six-year-old, there’s a chance that you actually know what you’re talking about, right? Because we cannot make an assumption that everybody knows what you know. I did that. I explained it to them like a six-year-old. No, because I felt like they were not smart enough. It’s because it was the easiest way for me to show I understand this topic, right? By the time I was walking out and I was going to the parking lot, the HR lady calls me. She said, “Estela, come back.” I said, “What do you need?” She said, “We got an offer.” I said, “You’re kidding.” She said, “No, you’re hired. You can start on Monday.” I said, “I would love to start on Monday, but I need at least a week to let my…” She said, “Perfect.” I started as a digital marketer there. I used to do… I was the campaign manager for Allegiant Airlines for almost two years in there. It was a lot of learning. I loved every bit of it, but in my head, I always wanted to go back to software because that was my bread and butter. I went to school for it and I wanted to go back to it. At some point, our campaign was going to sell to the competitor. They were going to take me with them because they liked my work and they were like, “Yeah, we’re just going to transfer you over. The campaign likes you. Everybody likes you. We want to continue working with you.” I’m like, “Okay.” We start negotiations. At this point, Estela is starting to learn how to negotiate. In the beginning, I was just grabbing whatever money I could, but at this point, I’m starting to learn, “Wait a minute. I have skills. I can negotiate.” One of my ex-managers… Go ahead.

Manuel: I’m curious. When you say that you know that you’ve got skills and you want to negotiate, the reason I ask, and I’m sure that you’re probably going to touch on it, but I want to make sure, is it because at some point, you’re looking at other jobs and seeing what they’re paying? Are you doing your research on the market? Or are you just, like? If you were able to… You decided that you wanted to hire me within that same day, obviously, there’s something here that you can’t find somewhere else. Is it just that? You’ve just established that confidence to say, “Oh, I can get more.” That’s not a skill that, I’ll tell you, it took me a while to figure out. I didn’t figure it out on my own. It was me and a good friend of mine, Oscar, and he’s been on here and we talked about that, where understanding to negotiate, it’s a difficult skill, especially if you don’t have anybody. At the time, now you can go through and there’s tons of YouTube videos where people explain all that, but part of that, that’s not something that’s discussed a lot. I didn’t know if you were going to touch on it, but I want to ask that question as you’re saying like, “Hey, Estela knows how to go through and negotiate.” I’m just curious.

Estela: I didn’t know. What happened there is one of my ex-managers moved to a software company that was located here in Vegas. He calls me, he tells me, “You still want to job in software?” I was like, “Yeah.” He says, “We’re hiring a technical support manager, a technical support engineer. You can come and I’ll recommend you. Go through the interview process. No guarantee of the job.” This is around the same time that I’m moving jobs. I’m torn because I’m thinking, “Oh my God, I’m going to end up without a job. I’m probably not going to be able to provide for my children. I’m just nervous.” We had a director in the agency, which by the way, she already passed away. I remember I went into her office crying and I was like, “I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’m going to end up without a job and I have kids.” She tells me, “First of all, stop crying. That’s pitiful. Just clean your face.” I was like, “Okay. Okay. I got this.” She says, “Second of all, why are you crying?” She said, “Have you even realized what you do?” I was like, “Well, I’m very young.” I’m like, “No, no, no, no.” She said, “Stop doing that.” She said, “Don’t kid yourself. I’m pretty sure you have another job offer.” Like another job offer. I was like, “Why would you say that?” She said, “Estela, I’ve seen you edit your resume twice.” I read one of them and one of them doesn’t say marketer. You want to be honest here? I’m thinking, “Oh, great. I’m going to get fired.” I was like, “Well, I’m already out anyways.” I was like, “You’re right, Ann. I have somebody.” She said, “So why are you crying?” I was like, “Because I don’t know what to do.” She said, “You know what you’re going to do? You’re going to go to the people and you’re going to tell them you want more money. You’re going to tell them you want this much more and we’re going to do the math.” She’s the one that literally sat with me and taught me when my skills were worth on paper.

Manuel: That was at your current place of employment?

Estela: Yes. That was at the marketing agent. Yes. Ann Her name was Ann, but she wasn’t the type of person that was sweet. I went in there crying and she’s like, “Stop crying. We don’t have time for this.” I understand that now. What she did with me was shock. Like, “Hey, you’re going to put this energy. We’re going to put it in paper.” By the time I was done with that talk with her, I remember I went to the software agency and I went to the other agency and I had my price. I figure whoever gives me this price, that’s where I’m going. Guess what? The software company gave me that price. It was a no brainer for them. It was like, “Yeah, we’ll give you that plus this.” I was like, “Oh yeah, I’m going. I’m going.” That’s how I made this switch from marketing back to software, which was incredibly amazing. I had some of the best learning years where I was working at the time. I worked with the company for almost four years. I went from a technical support engineer to a technical account manager and ended up as a data center application engineer.

Manuel: I want to dig a little bit more into what she did to help you know to negotiate. You mentioned that you’re putting down your skills. What was that process like? The reason I say that is, again, maybe somebody doesn’t have that person like you did to go through and sit you down. If someone’s listening, what were some of the things that you went through and said, “Okay.” I mentioned at some point when I started negotiating, I started looking, “Okay, what does this role pay? Do you do similar roles, pay at other places?” Now, one of the things you have to be careful of is, “Okay, what that role pays here in Las Vegas is not what New York’s going to pay. It’s going to be a lot more, but you also have to realize it’s a cost of living.” You have to take that into account because I would just look and I’m like, “That’s what they’re making in California and New York? That’s what I’m going to ask for.” That’s not the basis there. Then also, “Okay, maybe that skill level is or isn’t there.” What were some of the things that you walked through?

Estela: The one thing that she walked me through was, of course, comparison in markets, just like you were explaining. She said, “I will honestly do a comparison between somebody in California and New York.” I said, “Ann but we are in Vegas.” She said, “Listen, you’re not listening.” I was like, “Okay.” She said, “It will take them this much more money to lure somebody from New York or Los Angeles to come fill in that job position.” Guess what? You’re saving that company that much money. You start number one. Number two, how many languages do you speak? I was like, “Oh.” She said, “Number three, you have a degree on this which is going to assure that you perform. Number four, guess what? You have been doing account management for how long now, my babe?” I was like, “Oh my God, I didn’t even think of that.” She said, “It’s called transferable skills.” I didn’t even know what that meant at the time until she explained it to me. I honestly feel like my brand as a person now is teaching other people how transferable skills are literally the bridge to cross from one industry to the other. That’s it. You can literally start as a marketer and end up as a support engineer and maybe later on end up as a VP. Why? Because if you understand what a transferable skill is, start from that base and grow it. You just have to use that little bridge to get to your next position.

Manuel: That makes a lot of sense because a lot of times we don’t think of… It’s funny, I was just listening to a podcast and probably part of the reason that you didn’t think about that and a lot of times where I think we struggle is if it’s something that comes easy to you. I say easy because you’ve been doing it for a while. You don’t consider that a strength. You’re like, “Oh, I do that. I don’t do software marketing.” To me, I’m like, “Oh, wow, that’s amazing.” But you’re just like, “That’s just what I do every day.” But if we were to switch that and I tell you, “Hey, I automate infrastructure and I do scripting with PowerShell and things like that,” and you’re like, “Oh, that’s amazing.” No, that’s just what I do. I think it’s great that understanding what are those transferable skills and it’s like, “Okay, you know how to automate and do a lot of that. Okay, well, what’s the transferable skill that I could probably take?” And you say, “Okay, well, you know how to think through a problem and a process.” And you understand what, “Okay, here’s these 10 things that I needed to do.” You know how to place those in order. It’s interesting and I’m glad you brought that up is to say, “Hey, understanding what’s your transferable skill and maybe if you don’t know, go talk to somebody that works with you or knows you and say, “Hey, what’s something that I’m really good at?” And they’ll tell you, “Oh, Estela you’re great at this.” So is that kind of what happened in that situation?

Estela: I think that’s what happened and like I said, I think that’s when I understood what transferable skills were and now that I think about it, I’m like, “Huh.” A lot of the things that I did as a child were transferable skills like learning how to be aware of my surroundings and have a good direction of geography, transferable skill. How is that a transferable skill? When I was in marketing and we were doing these geo-targetings, a lot of the things that I had to do was kind of remember where did we geo-fence to serve a specific ad. That sense of geography that my grandmother taught me by walking those streets is the same one that said in my head, “What was the geography?” Up to this point, believe it or not, if I drive somewhere once, I will remember that road forever. I don’t use GPS hardly ever because I had so many years of experience just remember that road. That’s the way I grew up, right? When I didn’t know that was a transferable skill. Telling a story, I didn’t know that was a thing, right? But my grandmother used to make us watch novelas and she will say, “I’m going to go really quick to wash the dishes. When I come back, you got to tell me what happened. The name of the person, what would they do and where did they go, who and where?” We have to tell the full story and sometimes act it out like, “Oh, and then she did this and oh my God, abuelita.” I didn’t know that that attention to detail that my grandmother used to make us tell her is the same attention to detail that sometimes I have to put telling a story to my customers. Dear customer, this is the way we have seen the product work and let me tell you the story of how we found the problem and how we solved it.

Manuel: That’s how people remember things as much as you could have told them the technical details. This is what happened. This is what broke. This is where we fixed it. They might be like, “Okay, great. That’s cool.” But you tell a story behind it. I’m sure just the little bit that we’ve known each other, just the way that you would tell a story, they’re probably like,

Estela: “I want to know more.”

Manuel: “I want to know what happened.” Just understanding that whole process.

Estela: That comes from my grandmother teaching me how to tell her de novela. For those of you that don’t know what a novela is. A novela. It’s a Mexican soap opera. All of us Mexicans grow up watching it. Oh, that’s another thing my grandmother taught me. She used to say, “Always watch the executive women in de novela.” I was like, “Why would I want to do that?” Look at the way they sit. Look at the way they talk. Look at the way they enter the room. I was like, “I’m not going to enter those rooms. Who cares, Grandma? I can sit however…” No. Now that I think of it, I said my grandmother didn’t go to school Manny, but my grandmother had a great sense of learning by watching. She said, “If you ever want to go places, have in your head what you want to look like. Dress like it. Act like it. Be like it.” And my mom always said, “The days that you feel the worst, those are the days that you look the best.” And I was like, “Mom, I’m falling apart. I don’t care.” That’s the day that you put on your best dress and you walk down the door like the world is yours. And I think now I’m like, “Oh my gosh. They are right. It’s the way that you feel and the way that you present yourself that the world is going to preceive you.” And then your perception changes. You start smiling. People smile back. You start accomplishing just walking out. Sometimes Manny, walking out the door for some people is the hardest part of the day. People that deal with anxiety, people that have dealt with death, people that have dealt with the loss of a career or loss of just themselves, just walking out that door in itself is the hardest thing you’re going to do. I’ve seen it over and over again. Just putting yourself together in itself is a job. If you can do that job every morning, the rest of it, it’s going to be easy.

Manuel: And the more you start to do that, if you can push yourself through just, “Hey, getting out the door, it makes a world of difference.” People might see the memes and the different things and it seems cheesy where you’re just like, “Hey, kindness,” and things like that because you touch on it. That person being out there, you don’t know what they’ve gone through. And similar to you, I’ve always gone out and I always try to go through. Somebody’s, “Hey, how are you doing today?” Fantastic, amazing, great. Because that little boost of energy just might be enough like, “Man, I was going to stay home today. Man, I had a good interaction with this total stranger and they were fantastic. I wonder why.” So then it starts to become contagious. I had found that I went to a conference and the person that was speaking, he says, “We go through the motions. Think about every time you go to work.” Somebody’s like, “How are you? Great, I’m fine. How are you? Good, fine.” It just becomes automatic.

Estela: Like a ping pong. It’s like a ping pong match. You throw the ball, I catch it. You throw it, I catch it.

Manuel: Right. So he goes, “Go.” And the next time somebody asks you how you are, tell him, “I’m on fire.” And I was like, “What? That’s weird, right?” But as he starts talking about why you do it, he goes, “You said it earlier. It’s a shock.”

Estela: It is.

Manuel: So I was like, “Well, I don’t know if I can say I’m on fire, but I can start finding different words that say, “Hey, I’m fantastic. I’m amazing.” There’s a lot of times I don’t feel fantastic or amazing, but you say that and then just all of a sudden I’m like, “You know what? Maybe I do feel fantastic today.” So it starts to kind of go through. And I’m seeing, you mentioned your grandmother, the things that she taught you, understanding by doing, by watching. I know you, we kind of touched on it a little bit at the beginning where you talked about how your family always used to read in the encyclopedias. I’m guessing that also as you’re studying, as you’re learning, as you’re going through the SEO, as you’re picking up these skills, you’re doing a lot of reading.

Estela: Yes.

Manuel: Right. Because there’s videos, there’s training, but there is a lot of reading involved. So do you have a love for reading and not just technical stuff, but do you also read for self-improvement, for enjoyment? And if you do, one of the things that I’m curious and I think it’s something that I’m going to start incorporating is, is there a book that you would recommend either on self-development, on career, leadership? Do you do any type of that type of reading? And is there a book or a couple books that stand out in your mind that says, “Hey, this is a really good book and people should look into this”?

Estela: Right. So there’s tons of books. And so one of the books that really helped me in 2020 to go from being stuck in my position to doubling my income in only two years, the name of the book is The DevelopHer book. DevelopHer book. And so this book, literally the author, her name is Lauren, and I can drop the link for you guys later in the… whenever you publish this, but she talks about her story, how she felt, and I really identify with her feeling like she couldn’t do things or she wasn’t good enough or whatever it was. Right? And she starts taking these baby steps to unpeeling who she is. By the way, she’s now a professional speaker. She did great in tech. And so I’m serious, like you gotta read this book. It’s a book about this book. The book is The DevelopHer book. I follow instructions on that book to the T Manny, to the T. And that book literally opened doors for me that I had never even opened on my own. It talked about how to raise your hand when you’re afraid, how to go to hackathons, because I always wanted to go into cybersecurity while I was being a data center application engineer, but I was an application engineer. My job was not cybersecurity, yet things that I did in my job had to be secure, but I didn’t quite understand how that went. And so I remember thinking, “I need to learn this.” I am… I’m telling you, I think I have this from my grandmother. If you really want something, you just put it out and God has a way to give it to you, right? And so I really wanted to understand how cybersecurity worked. Guess what happens 2020? CrowdStrike comes asked me if I could interview with them, and I’m thinking, “Holy CrowdStrike, okay. Here was a caveat. I was no longer going to be a data application engineer. I was going to be a technical account manager.” So guess what? You get your ego kicked down to your feet, because when you’re an engineer, you went from being a technical support account manager to engineer, and I’m thinking, “Oh my God, there we go.” And then I read this. I’m thinking, like, “Oh my God, what am I going to do, right? Like, this is the right idea.” And then somebody tells me at the time, “Think about it this way. I don’t think it’s going down. I think it’s a lateral movement. Why don’t you take it? Don’t you want to learn cybersecurity?” And I say, “Yes, I do. This is your shot. This is your shot. It’s like going to school for free. Do it.” And guess what? They’re paying you more. It’s even better. And I was thinking, “Oh my God, you’re right. It’s in CrowdStrike that I started volunteering for the women of CrowdStrike, and that’s where that book is presented to me during the time that I’m in CrowdStrike.” The DevelopHer book was presented by Lauren, the author, and she talks about her journey. And I’m thinking, she says, “If you want to be good at hackathons and cybersecurity, go say, “I want to do it,” and you don’t have to do anything or know anything. Just go do it.” And I’m thinking, “Oh my God, I should probably just do it. I’m just for the heck of feeling.” And then it came to me. I said, “You know what? What if I do something that really scares you?” Because the book says, “Do something that really scares you as often as possible.” And I thought, “I’m going to do 30 days of something that scares me every day, every day.” So every time my manager had a difficult thing, I’d be like, “I’ll do it.” It didn’t even matter what it was. I was like, “I’ll do it.” Or we have, “I’ll do it.” Anything and everything that came my way that scared me, I will say, “I’ll do it.” Seriously, whether it was even as a t-shirt, like, “I don’t like that t-shirt. I’ll wear it.” “Oh, this is the food that didn’t want. I’ll eat it.” Like, the point was to shock my brain enough to take everything scary for a whole month. By the time I was done with that month, I think I felt so light. I was like, “Oh, I can do anything. Wow. What am I going to do next?” The company that I work for now comes scouting for me. And it’s during that time that I’m doing the scary things. And I was like, “Fine. I’ll do it. I’ll do the interview.” And so in the process, I end up landing it. And I’m like, “Oh, I did it.”

Manuel: But it’s just a lot of that. People call it different things, right? Being comfortable with being uncomfortable, pushing yourself, being open to new opportunities, and going through and taking those leaps of faith and just really betting on yourself. And it’s amazing to hear the different bits and pieces. There’s so many things that I think that you’ve kind of shared in the process of from a young age to things that you learned later on in life to say, “Hey, this was beneficial and I learned this later on.” Even later on in your career, right? Like, “Hey, I’m already in this role and understanding that there’s no one way to get there. You’re going to have setbacks.” We all are, right? They may not be the same. I’m never going to get pregnant, but I might encounter something that just is a big setback to me. And they’re like, “Okay, well, now what do I do? And all right, well, I guess I’m not going to reach my goal of working for Google.” Well, why is that? Maybe not right now, but maybe I have to go and accomplish these other things or I have to find something. But if it’s meant for you, if you start to kind of put that out there, and I’ll tell you not until the last couple of years, like I always kind of had little goals to myself and it was scary to tell somebody, “Hey, I’m thinking about doing this.” Or sometimes I would just tell somebody about it and they’re like, “Oh, that’s a great idea.” And I almost got the high of like, “Well, I think it’s a great idea, but yeah, I don’t know. I’m not going to do that.” But writing it down, kind of verbalizing it. So I think there’s a two-prong approach saying, “Hey, I’m going to do this,” and telling somebody, writing it down. And if it’s for you, it’ll happen. If it’s not, there’s probably a reason. I know that we’ve kind of covered a lot of it and I know that we’re towards the end of your career, but is there any other part during there that you feel that, “Hey, this is another important one?” Or you read the book, I guess I don’t want to kind of cut you off, but just you mentioned that you got to your current role now. So is there anything in that role or in that transition that you think was important?

Estela: Oh yeah, because I actually got to where I am right now, but I was not hired as a solution to engineer. I was still hired as a technical account manager. And so the one thing I did see is that they allow you to take certifications for free, and I’m thinking, “I’m going to get as many as I want, as many as I can.” And so we had 90 days to ramp up. And I go through those 90 days, one after another, after another, after another. And I do that for the first six months, right? And so I’m nine months into my role, and I have this amazing manager. By the way, his name is Melvin. Melvin, if you see this, shout out. Because it was between Melvin and Dante. They worked it out. I was working this really difficult account that was ready to churn. And between the three of us, we were able to get on board with them and allow them to stay with us, right? And so I used to stay on these phone calls with my customer until 11 at night sometimes. They’re my customer, they’re my baby, I’m going to go through it. I don’t care how long and how late it is, I am going to stay there. And so Dante, the manager at the time of the Solutions Engineers, he was like, “Who is this girl and why is she in so late?” And so they start talking, and then one of the Solutions Engineers that was the Sustaining Engineer tells me, “Are you a Solutions Engineer?” And I said, “No, I’m an account manager.” She said, “Why are you not a Solutions Engineer?” And I said, “Because I don’t like selling.” And she said, “I guess you have the wrong idea of what a Solutions Engineer is.” She said, “How about you put time in my calendar and we talk about this?” And I said, “Okay.” So she starts telling me what the position is about, and I’m like, “I don’t know, maybe, I’m not sure.” She said, “Well, if you ever consider it, let me know. I can mentor you, and if there’s ever an opening, I encourage you to apply. So even if you don’t make it, at least you get feedback.” And again, I was like, “Huh, feedback sounds about right right now.” I said, “Okay, sure.” So a whole month passed, nothing. And then, sure enough, an opening was there. And I was like, “Huh.” And then somebody in that team was leaving, and one of my colleagues, her name is Crystal. Hey, Crystal. She reaches out and she says, “My sister-in-law is leaving the team. You want in?” And I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “It’s not guarantee you’re going to get hired, but you can interview for the position. Do you want to interview?” And I said, “Yeah.” She said, “Well, go to the website, see if you like it.” Because they’re in different departments, people talk all the time, right? And so I was like, “Okay, I’ll do it.” So I go in there, and here’s the caveat. I’m only 10 months into my role. To be able to do a movement to another role, you have to be in there at least for a year. That’s already a no Manny, my favorite word. No. And guess what I do? Tell me no. I swear to you. I… Every time I hear no, I’m going to go do it. And I was like, “Okay, fine. You told me no. Okay.” And so I make an appointment with Dante, and I say, “You know what? Can we have this conversation?” And he was like, “Yeah.” And so I start explaining to him that I’m interested and that I’m going to apply. And he says, “You know what? Great. I love your enthusiasm, but here’s the thing.” And he starts explaining things to me. He says, “Does your manager know about this?” I said, “I can guarantee you he’ll know by the end of the day.” He says, “You’re joking.” I said, “No. I’m just having this conversation that you know I’m coming your way, and when you turn me down, I’m coming back until you tell me yes.” He said, “What?” I said, “I’m not trying to be passive aggressive. I’m just telling you that I’m going to knock at that door until you open it. But for now, I am going to knock, and my manager will know, and we’re going to be able to work together, and if it’s not this time, it’s going to be the next time, but I’m going to be in your team.” He was like, “Okay.” He says, “So what do you bring to the table?” I said, “Well, guess what? I’m getting my architect certification.” And he says, “Wait, what?” And I said, “I have all the certifications. I’m getting an architect.” He said, “Estela, that usually takes people a long time. You know, it’s one of our hardest certifications.” I said, “What’s your point?” He says, “You’re joking with me, right?” I said, “I’ll do you one better.” I said, “I’m going to apply, and if I get my architect, and your team likes me, and you like me, we got to have that conversation of how can I make it?” He said, “If you pass, because it’s a test that is two composites. It’s the actual lab that is 24 hours to make a whole environment from scratch, feeding your data, and make it work, and then there’s a reading portion of it, which is a 90-minute exam which encompasses two different courses that you have to take, right?” And so I was like, “Yeah, I’ll have it ready. Sure enough.” What was it? March came around, and I passed it. The first thing I did, I was going to say, “How did I want it?” I went in and said, “Hey, I got it.” And he goes, “Oh my god.” And my application is in, so what are we going to do? So both of my managers had a conversation. That’s what I’m telling you. I have been very blessed to have managers that have been supportive because Melvin and Dante worked it out together, both made a case to our HR department, and they made a case so good that I was able to go ahead and make that leap from where I was to where I am today.

Manuel: And it reminds me, and I haven’t read the book yet, but I’ve heard a lot about it. It’s like, be So Good That They Can’t Ignore You, right? And it sounds like that that’s what you were doing. You’re like, “Oh, you’re-“

Estela: That’s one of my favorite books, by the way.

Manuel: Is it really? And now I feel very compelled to add that to my reading list and kind of probably bump it up. I’m pretty sure it’s on there. But it sounds like that that’s what you’re doing, right? And, “Hey, you’re telling me no, and it’s not like no, and I’m just going to whine and complain. It’s I’m going to go back and I’m going to show you-“

Estela: I’m going to be so good at it that by the time you tell me no, it’s going to be okay. I cannot tell you no because you are so good at it. And I cannot turn you down. I’m sorry. I don’t know what to do anymore if you’re not where I need you to be.

Manuel: And at that point, they’re probably also saying, “If I don’t say yes to you-“

Estela: You’re coming back.

Manuel: You’re coming back, or at some point, somebody else is going to say yes, right? Because you’re going to start putting this body of work together. And I think it’s sometimes people like, “Oh, well, they recruited her. They recruited him.” It’s because of the body of work. It’s the work that you put in, right? It’s not instant, but at some point, somebody’s going to notice, right? “Hey, I’m giving you the opportunity to promote me, to keep me, to move you to your team.” But if you don’t, somebody else will. Now it may not be now, it may be in a year, but it’s going to happen.

Estela: Correct.

Manuel: So you move over into this new role, and obviously, like everybody else, er like everywhere else you’ve kind of defied the odds. You kind of tell them, “So what happens when you move into this next role?”

Estela: A lot of learning happened, right? I had to learn again what my role was about because, yes, my role is a lot about technical discovery, technical advisor, but then really lay ground the foundation of a good storyteller to explain to our customers what we do, right? And a lot of the work that has gone into this is really understanding and redefining my north start, right? Because once you get to where you want to be, sometimes we forget and we put ourselves in auto mode, and then you become an autonomous like, “Oh, I got it. Great. I’m happy.” Right? I have made it a goal that every quarter I have to revisit my north star. Is my north star still aligned with where I’m going, with my dreams, with who I am, with who my brand is, right? Because before 2020, I didn’t understand what a brand is. After 2020, I understood I am a brand. Yes, I am definitely having a career. Yes, I do work for a company, but after I am a brand, just like Nike, just like Jordan, I am a brand. My name says Estela Baca, and I am a brand, right? So what does my brand represent? Is my brand in line with my morals, my goals, and what I back it up with my work, right? And so every quarter I do that. And the one thing that comes back over and over again is, “Yeah, I wake up every morning and I get to do what I love doing. Will this be what I love doing within another five years?” I don’t know yet, but I am still discovering it. I do have a plan for the next year. I’m working on something right now. I hope that it comes up to fruition, you know? Another leap I want to do, another project I have in mind, but in the long run, I do have a plan and I do have a big picture. So yeah, I just am waiting for somebody to tell me no.

Manuel: And the entire conversation, your entire journey, just everything that you’re doing has been… Like there’s a lot that I’ve learned from you, right? And I’ve been in the industry probably just as long as you have. And that’s one of the things that I really enjoy about this. I do it for others to learn, but in the process, I’m learning so much. And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t think about that. Maybe I should incorporate that into what I’m doing.” So I know I asked you a lot of questions. Is there anything that either I haven’t asked you that you think, “Hey, Manny, you didn’t ask me this, but I think this is important for people to know.” Or is there anything, maybe not a question, but something that you want to talk about or just kind of summarize your career? Like I’ll leave it up to you, right? I want to give you the opportunity to kind of share anything that you want to that I haven’t asked.

Estela: Right. So the one thing I do want to share is this. When it comes to career, I hope that everybody does remember that career is not just about what you do every day at work, right? Or your branding. But don’t forget about the human connection. I did not know the importance of networking events. It was probably about probably nine months ago that I got introduced to networking events. And it has done a lot of changes in my life in a positive way, right? Sometimes your next promotion is right next to you. So the person that you have never said hello, right? Maybe in your same city. When you are working tech, sometimes we forget that we are humans and we do everything through Slack and through Zoom. But what happens to those gatherings where people get to know each other again and go have a nice lunch and say, “How are you? How is your family?” Right? We’re humans. We come to work with the same idea. Have a good day and provide for yourself or your family, right? And so when it comes to networking, networking events are great in Zoom, but face-to-face networking events are a hundred times better. You’re able to find your own community. You’re able to find your new passions. Do you have a passion? You can do volunteering work. By the way, I’m a huge supporter of volunteering work. So if you can volunteer for somebody, you’re giving back to the community, to yourself, and you’re learning in the process, right? And so, yeah, it was about nine months that I got introduced to local networking events thanks to Dr. Amara. And so he has been one of the people that has introduced me to new individuals like the Tech Alley and some other individuals here in the Valley. I didn’t even know that we had cybersecurity people here in the Valley. You and I looked at each other, Manny, like, “No way you live here,” right? It was thanks to Dr. Amara that I came across to Asal, and it was just faith, right? Like me and her clicked very quickly. I’m super excited to start working that project with her to do some of the classes as one of her teachers, right? And it’s just to give back to the community, right? But guess what? A networking event that I wouldn’t even thought about. Like, my child tells me sometimes, “You’re always out now, Mom.” I’m like, “I’m not out partying. I’m not clubbing. I’m not doing drugs. I’m meeting new people. I’m talking to people.” He doesn’t click yet, right? But then the other day when I came back and I explained to him what it was, he sat down and he was like, “Wow, Mom, I didn’t know you were doing that.” I said, “I told you so.” I told you so, but then sometimes you have to re-explain it, right? But yes, the networking events, don’t forget them. I mean, if you are doing something in your city, expand your network, go talk to someone. I joined a running club. I ran my very first half marathon in February, and so I decided to join a running club here in Vegas. Funny enough, a lot of those people are realtors and some of them do work in tech and some of them are retired, but there’s a lot of things that I have learned from these individuals, tons of new friends that I have made, connections that I wouldn’t even thought before that I would have, right? So don’t ever forget the importance of that human connection.

Manuel: Don’t think that it has to be to try and find that new job, right? If that’s the intention of what you’re going for, then it’s probably the wrong intention.

Estela: It is.

Manuel: It’s really just to go and meet new people. Now, does that mean that jobs don’t come out of it? Sure, I’m sure they do, or recommendations. But you can easily tell the people that are there for that, right? “Hey, I need to meet this person,” or “I’m trying to move up,” and similar to you. Just earlier in my career, I’d go to networking events, but I would go to attend the lunch and I’d say, “That’s a free lunch. Hey, I get to hang out with some of these people,” and that was it, right? That was the extent of it. Probably the first networking event that I went with the intention of, “I want to go and just meet other people, understand what they’re doing, and just talk to people,” at that one is I met Asal as well. But it was I met her and just introduced myself because I was talking to other people that I had met, like three people. Again, I think sometimes we think that if you go to a networking event, you have to work the room. “I’ve got to go talk to as many people as possible.” No, I talked to three people and I had good conversations with them and established a relationship. But Asal, I would see that she was asking just these questions and I was like, “There’s something about her very inquisitive.” So I reached out to her and I start seeing, I connect with her on LinkedIn to understand what she’s doing. Again, you don’t know the impact or the opportunities that can come. Again, helping and giving back and similar to you, I’m just part of her nonprofit and just it’s exciting to kind of give back. So I really appreciate you coming on and kind of sharing your story and your journey. And I’m glad that we’ve connected and we have a relationship and we’re going to continue to grow the local community here. Is there anything else that you want to kind of say before we kind of wrap up here?

Estela: No, I just want to leave people with my favorite phrase. If you ever feel like you can do something, just remember, “Action conquers fear.”

Manuel: That’s a great one. And thank you again. And for everybody that’s watching and listening, I really appreciate you taking the time to go through and I really hope that we’re providing value to you and you’re learning just like I am with each one of these conversations. So until the next time, remember to continue to plug in and download the knowledge and we’ll talk to you next time.