From Building PCs To Protecting A Pro Sports Team with Andrew Ferrall | Ep059

Manuel Martinez: Welcome everyone. My name is Manuel Martinez and this is another episode of Career Downloads. For each episode I bring on a different guest to really learn more about their background and their experience to try and gain any actionable advice that you can use as you’re managing your own career. I have with me Andrew Farrell and this is a pretty interesting conversation. So back when I first started the podcast and was looking for guests, I really just started looking on LinkedIn to try and find people that were local to the area that had a career trajectory that looked like – you know there’s motion, maybe they had moved around, just something where I thought, you know, would bring about interesting conversation. We reached out – or sorry – we reached out to him and, you know, had a little bit of back and forth and eventually we were able to kind of get the scheduling worked out so I’m really excited. One of the benefits of again doing this is getting to know somebody local and kind of know more about them. So with that I’ll go ahead and introduce Andrew.

Andrew Ferrall: Hey, thanks for having me Manuel. Really appreciate you. You’ve had a lot of awesome guests on your podcast and I just want to say you know it’s flattering that you’ve invited me to kind of be on here. You know I’ve learned a lot listening to some of the insights that your other guests have had and I hope I can bring the same for your audience today.

Manuel Martinez: I think so and I appreciate you kind of coming on and you know you mentioned you know listening we did have you know conversations offline about some of these people and the other cool thing is I think one of the benefits for me, right – and again, I do this to try and help share information for others but then I get to meet local people and again through the conversations we’ve had, you know, we found common ground we were both you know Dodger fans, so that kind of helped connect us, and I think it really does a good job of, you know – through this medium and – help people understand that like we’re just people, right? Like yes we have a career yes we can learn from each other but at the same time like – I can call you up and like, “Oh, did you watch the game last night? Did you hear about this?”, you know so that’s part of the fun thing for me so again it’s not just – oh my gosh, it’s not just your title but who you are as a person that I think I really try to kind of pick my guess based on that.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah.

Manuel Martinez: So if you can tell people who don’t know who you are kind of what your current role or position is and then kind of some of the responsibilities that, you know, you do – You know I don’t need your day-to-day stuff but just kind of a general sense of it.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so I am the IT Security Architect for the Las Vegas Raiders football team here in Las Vegas and I’m kind of the lead person when it comes to cyber security initiatives, whether it be day-to-day, you know, defense, compliance, evaluating new initiatives, making sure they’re secure and okay to roll out and really just making sure we’re playing our best defense on the “cyber gridiron” if you will. So yeah, really awesome, work with a great team. I rely on a lot of folks that are you know, more subject matter experts in different parts of IT, specifically networking. Or even certain system stuff that I may have not had much expertise on in my upbringing and it’s a really really cool job and it’s definitely one that I don’t take for granted.

Manuel Martinez: So I’m excited now because you and I have talked in the past and I kind of know a little bit of kind of what you do now, but really understanding kind of where you start and kind of what got you there – so if you don’t mind telling me or telling us a little bit about you know kind of where you grew up what kind of sparked that interest in technology and you know eventually what you decided or at least what you thought your career was gonna start with, right? Because maybe you thought like, “Oh, I’m gonna be – I’m gonna be in IT from the get-go,” or you know, like, “Hey, I’m gonna be a firefighter,” and kind of pivoted that way.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so I actually am lucky enough that, you know, late middle school early on in high school I kind of found out I was into technology and potentially wanted to have some sort of career in it. Back in eighth grade I had a friend who was like really into building computers.He built computers for playing video games, I think Half-Life and Counter-Strike were the big games at the time, and you know like everyone at that time – this is like early 2000s late 90s – everyone’s getting their first computer in their home and you know AOL was the thing and – you get your disc in the mail and all that good stuff. So you know we had a family computer and I would tinker with it try to find ways to make it better. Sometimes I would break things and it would be at the time where I wasn’t supposed to be using the computer so I was like, “Alright, better fix this before I get in trouble.” right like double trouble you know breaking the computer and you know not being on there when you’re not supposed to. So I kind of just was starting to pick up like you know different skills with computers at that time and there was also a TV channel at the time called tech TV if you remember.

Manuel Martinez: I do.

Andrew Ferrall: Screensavers, call for help – and so I would love like watching that show and learning about different things, different technologies whether it was you know personal computers or gaming or or just you know different technologies out there like mp3 players were coming onto the scene and you know learning about those things – and so as that progression went on over a couple of years of those different things in my life around computers, I kind of decided I was like, “Alright I know when I grow up I’m gonna want to-” I didn’t know exactly what it was going to be what it would manifest into, you know, what I would be doing for eight hours a day. I thought I was gonna go work for Microsoft or something you know you who knows right but I knew like, “When I go to college-” because I knew for sure I wanted to go to college, I knew that I was gonna want to major in something that was gonna lead to some sort of career in working- at the time I probably thought computers, but overall technology.

Manuel Martinez: And similar to you, we had you know the family computer and I didn’t think about it at the time or I hadn’t remembered it until now that you’ve mentioned it- like we had set hours right and afterwards like I would be using it because there’s times where you know I had homework I was you know kind of staying up late and they’re like, “Hey finish that and then be done,” and you know sure sometimes I might have taken a break and started playing around with it and then broken it. For the process that you did of kind of like – troubleshooting, right? Because sure I remember Tech TV and you could watch that and probably pick up some things, but how did you – well, one: Your computer’s broken, right? And we didn’t have cell phones so it’s not like you can like – “Well let me Google this real quick” or “Let me pull up a YouTube video on how to fix this so like – what were – what’s the approach that you would take at that time?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so I think back then first thing was phone a friend. My friend who was – to me, he knew everything about computers right? So I was like “Hey, you know, I got this weird thing going on, I may have deleted this system file that shouldn’t have been deleted. What do you think?” or “Hey my computer’s just running slow, what are some easy things?” So you know I’d ask him but of course you know I would learn eventually like hey, he doesn’t have the answer to everything. Also he’s got like Counter-Strike to go play or something, he’s busy. So I you know I would turn to you know the internet right? Kind of what we do nowadays like get on the search engine look around and just kind of pool all your different resources between your friend, people you know, and also the internet.

Manuel Martinez: And I think that’s a – that’s a it’s a good skill to have and I think at the time we don’t realize it right but it’s again building a network, like, having people who know – and you said at the very beginning right, like, “I rely on network engineers, on the other people who have specialties that I don’t.” And I’m sure like you said they have – he’s got games to play, but you start to pick up enough knowledge to where you’re like, “Okay well I don’t know the answer but I know what to Google now or I like I know how to explain you know the problem that I’m having.”

Andrew Ferrall: I think a huge thing that I picked up along the way is like, “What is the problem I’m trying to solve. What is the thing that is actually broken here? Is it that I did delete the system file and the computer needed that file to operate or was that a shortcut that was pointing to something that – you deleted that program so the shortcut’s there-” You know, stuff like that. I see that in my day-to-day too sometimes, like I’ll run into something like “Okay well, what do I think is actually broken here? I see the result, I see what isn’t happening, but where is the root cause? Where is the – what are the potential options?” you know kind of peel the onion back that way. Yeah I think kind of going through that back then I think in a weird way – unexpected way – it really set me up for for where I am today in some ways.

Manuel Martinez: So then you had set on,” Hey, I want to go to college, I want to do something within here,” but again similar to you probably like- “I don’t know, but I just know that I like technology, it’s cool, it seems to be easy.” For me what I liked was you know that constant like – it was always changing right? Like I remember upgrading from Windows 95 to 98 – even then I was like, you know, you run into problems like “Okay ooh, now this is different.” and I would poke around to figure out what’s new so that’s what attracted me. So then was it really just “I like technology” and kind of when you got into college what did you – what did you think you were gonna do?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so I think I originally – probably this is like the only degree I knew that had to do with technology – I set on like to go into computer science and you know that seemed like the obvious choice and my senior year I went to UNLV. So my senior year I was meeting with an advisor at the College of Engineering at UNLV and I kind of told her like “Yeah I want to do computer science,” and you know she looked at where I was with the pre-reqs and whatnot and I kind of told her what I wanted to do and she’s like “You know I think you should look into this business management information systems major at the business college on campus at UNLV.” And I was like “Okay I’ve never heard that, what is that?” and you know I saw that you know it was like half your core classes or business classes the other half are technology, and so I think about like, “Hm, this might be actually something that might be worthwhile because there’s way more breadth of different things you can learn.” And then I also had a friend that I was going to high school with who was going to University of Nevada Reno and he was doing the same degree and you know I talked to him about it and he actually knew about it a little bit more than me and he’s like, “You want to go into this because you’ll actually learn about the business computer science you know if you want to like go deep into programming and just code all day and maybe build some robots you know all kinds of things you can do computer science but you’re kind of not isolated like it’s its own specialty where if you go to this management information systems manager you’re gonna learn about different things about business and how technology applies and give yourself maybe some more options.” And so I thought about it like “Okay this actually makes a lot more sense here.” Because I mean before that I was like “Business, you know, who cares about business – that sounds boring you know, show up to work with suit and tie every day – and you know obviously no offense to that – definitely if I had a job there I had to do that today I would have no problem doing that but yeah at the time of high school you’re like – there was no appeal, no draw you know you’re just “I want to play with computers all day.” So yeah once I learned about that that’s how I landed on that and yeah I’m super grateful that for my career that I made that decision because I feel like it’s opened all kinds of paths that I would have never expected.

Manuel Martinez: Kind of looking back and it looks like you and I are having similar career paths which is kind of cool you know to understand that I didn’t also think – you know, I was gonna be a computer science major and then switched to MIS and – same thing I had people that go like “Hey why don’t you check this out this sounds like it might be more kind of up your alley.”And again it’s one of the benefits of this is understanding that there are similarities but they’re also going to be differences so then now you move into MIS and you’re like okay you starting to get a little bit of this business knowledge now at the time you don’t realize – not that you become an expert in all the things but I think you become exposed to it right? They expose you to accounting to finance to you know business administration like there’s all these other things at the same time you’re like, “It’s not what I want to do I want to do tech and PCs. But then how did you do in those other classes and did you know did you take that seriously enough or did they explain it as you start taking those classes that – you’re not taking this because you’re going to run the finance department but it’s more so that you have an understanding like you said to kind of – now looking back it’s – “I’m solving business problems.” That’s the business problems I’m just doing it with you know different technologies on the back end.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, I actually looking back on it in some ways enjoy the business classes more than technology classes because it was just all new stuff to me, and like you really learn – even though it was in the context of a controlled environment, the textbook, the classroom, you learn how the world functions and why businesses exist and how they operate and like you basically gain the definition of business right? Where like before it was just like a word you know? And that really like set me up I feel like in my career because when I went into my first role I realized like every little thing I did had an impact on the business you know minor or major depending on what I was doing at the time so I really enjoyed those classes I definitely enjoyed the tech classes in some way the tech classes were more challenging but so were the business classes, like- not gonna lie, accounting and e-comm were not my favorite classes at the time but I really enjoyed it and I think you know when I speak to some of my mentees that I’ve worked with over the last couple of years you know and they’re they’re asking like , “Hey, what should I look into if I go to college or you know enhance my breadth of knowledge of things?” Like sometimes I’ll say “Hey man, maybe go take a business class or look into a tech major,” like – if you’re going to a college that doesn’t have any sort of technical program or they just have technical electives but no program latch onto the business classes because that’s really what technology is affording, is businesses to operate.

Manuel Martinez: So then you mentioned you kind of you got into your first role and what was that process like for you going from college to get in that first role because I don’t know if it’s similar to me I thought I have a degree people are gonna be like “Let’s snatch this guy up before somebody else does,” and that was not the case.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so l luckily timing-wise – I wouldn’t say it’s luck but it’s just the timing of it – while I was in college, I graduated in 2012 so the recession was most of my time in college so I knew coming out of school having a job or getting a job wasn’t going to be a given. So what I did while I was in school kind of I think set me up the first thing was finding some sort of job or internship – luckily was a job because it paid – finding a job that actually dealt with technology. Going into college like my only tech experience was helping friends with their computers or classmates and you know projects from some of my information systems classes – but other than that no real concrete experience right so I ended up finding a student job on campus with the IT department at UNLV and that was kind of my first exposure to working in an IT department like in having something on my resume that says “Hey I got some hands-on experience.” So that was like the first thing that set me up. The second thing that set me up was we had this club called the Information Systems Society (?) – Management Information Systems Society and it was basically a networking group of management information system students, the undergrad program and the graduate program, and we would meet up a couple times a semester, and not only would we meet up but sometimes we we get some exposure to different businesses that would come in and present to us or they’d bring us in and show us a data center and through that I was actually able to meet someone at my future first job at a dinner that we had because they would have this annual dinner, and he was able to tell me about some positions they had at the company, referred me, which I’m – extremely grateful because he didn’t know me he knew me from the 30 minutes of conversation we had and he was able to say “Hey these are some positions you might be able to at least apply for. coming out of college.” And so between the on-campus job as a student the networking at the Information Systems Society and then just you know doing all the other things they tell you when you’re coming out like looking for jobs I was able to land my first job that way but it was it’s a little scary coming out you know you never know like yeah you come in with this promise of like I think I remember like a little tidbit on the Business School’s website about the Information Systems majors like “The median salary for graduates is 70 grand coming out.” I’m like “That sounds great,” and then by the time I finish that I’m like, “There’s no way anyone’s hiring me for 70 grand a year. So yeah, but I when I look back at that and I try to reinforce this when people ask me advice it’s like, “You got to get experience where you can, you have to network, and you have to be able- not be afraid to take shots.

Manuel Martinez: And that’s a big thing right there right is,

one: Don’t be afraid to take the shot and go through and try and make you know – apply and find out and You said that the person that you had had that dinner with, they at least made you aware right? He referred you which sure it does help to have a referral but at the end of the day it’s really based on you right? Like you still have to kind of go through an interview and you know put your resume together and do that but those conversations you know like I said it’s a 30-minute conversation but maybe even just that and you know just telling people like what it is that you do and you’re like hey I’m going through my MIS degree and just having a conversation with somebody he was able and had the knowledge to say “Hey well this might be a good path.” And again it’s not – even if he didn’t refer you I think a lot of times people think that okay I need to go network so that this person gets me the job but they just might make you aware of a role that fits the skills that you have at that time.

Andrew Ferrall: I’d never heard of that company, until I met him. Like I would have never known like “Hey I should go see if this company’s got openings for IT.” I mean frankly in some ways I didn’t even know what position I should have been applying for coming out of college and I definitely saw some of my classmates come to the program like they were definitely – especially the ones that kind of just maybe found the major because they heard it would be good money, some people had no idea like where they’d start some some people like overshot you know thought, “Hey I’m gonna just walk in and say let me run your IT department.” You know some people just had no idea. So yeah just talking to people and learning about what they do or where they work especially that was like pre – LinkedIn in era right? So you have no idea sometimes you’re blind you only know what you know, so.

Manuel Martinez: So once you get in, you apply, and you know, did he provide you kind of any guidance or do you remember like through college how to prepare your resume and how to like – the interview right? Because it’s one thing that they look at the resume and – back then it wasn’t so automated right where it would scan for keywords right so you’re just like “Okay,” and you have at that point like one experience in college right so they weren’t really scrutinizing your resume it was more the job interview process so starting out, what was the way that you prepared for that and what did you learn from that kind of moving forward for future interviews?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so, he definitely helped get my resume into you know the upper part of the pile if you will so I was able to get an HR screening and you know, kind of interview my way through. But what helped me prepare was on campus they had a career center so you know you can go in and do mock interviews they look at your resume and you know that’s kind of where I started learning like hey – they look at the job description they looked at my resume and they’re like, “Here are things you can highlight on your resume or craft a certain way that will help stick out so if he does get that to the top of the pile for you the HR person then looks at it and goes, “Okay, this might be a decent fit.” And the interview stuff was probably you know – you can’t – you can never practice enough, like you just can’t. So going through those rounds and I was still nervous like crazy, these are my first ever professional interviews but going through that and working with somebody and getting that feedback was was really helpful in getting me there.

Manuel Martinez: And then now you start this role, and I’m going to assume, I’m trying to remember but it was more entry-level right like PC yeah or kind of type of work and – which at the time like is good right like I’ve got to start getting experience but – how long did it take for you, and again for those that are interested you can kind of go through on your LinkedIn and see like that progression. But I’m just curious – you get into this entry-level and again there’s no right or wrong but for you what is it that when you started doing that role said, “Hey I think I want to do more.” Or maybe you didn’t and I’ve talked to some people where they just they get so good at it they’re like “Well why don’t you try this was it more you pushing yourself or did you kind of have people to kind of guide you and say “Hey you can do more.”

Andrew Ferrall: So I gotta be honest, I went from a very focused job at UNLV as a student worker it was probably it was probably because I was a student worker. At UNLV I was on the desktop deployment team so our team was basically swapping out desktops you know going through the process taking the computer that’s at the desk getting all the data off of it getting on the new computer you prep the new computer had to bring it to the desk you know basic, very focused role but important role, especially for a campus the size of UNLV. I went from that to my first job the company’s called Shuffle Master at the time, to – felt like drinking out of a firehouse. So you know we had a nine-person team I want to say it was like a thousand employees most of them in Vegas but a lot of remote. So I basically went from like “Hey you’re doing this very focused thing” to “Okay, there’s account lockouts, there’s – CEO needs help with his MacBook, his Outlook, isn’t working – I’ve never used Outlook before, how’s this work?” You know, there’s this service tech in the middle of the country, his BlackBerry email – I think we used BES at the time – wasn’t working, you know, so I had to learn a lot quick and at first – I think my first couple months it was like “Oh man do I want to do this?” You know and then also like what was really revealing was like so you know these IT departments are so huge right you don’t even realize as a student the different parts of IT like if you you never interact with them you, don’t know they exist. At Shuffle Master we have a tech apps team and a business apps team, a DBA, network operations manager – so I I was able to learn like oh wow there’s this other part of IT and it’s my job to triage things first before it gets to them. So it was like a really eye-opening experience and then also like a kind of like splash of cold water like hey this is this real world now and so as I got more comfortable you know started getting better at things learning when to ask, when to not be afraid to break things you know because when you come into a new job you don’t want to just start pulling cables and you know deleting right-click and deleting. Once I kind of got that comfort I think I started finding my group and then I start realizing okay this is this is kind of what I wanted to go into you know. And then you start working with different people in different departments and then you know you realize like oh this is why I took all these business classes because this business has a finance department they have an accounting department they have a legal department they have an executive team. You know there’s all these different things there’s a support organization and so that’s where it all started clicking for me and realizing why I had gone through that five years of studying and then getting that basic experience at UNLV, to kind of at least set me up with something when I’m walking in with some sort of understanding of things.

Manuel Martinez: And it sounds like we have a little bit of a different experience at least kind of getting started, like it’s just – you had a smaller team it wasn’t like it’s structured and I don’t know … like you’re onboarding and as you’re – because it’s similar to you right? There’s all this information like you think, “Oh I learned all this stuff in textbooks” but that’s not the case right that’s not the real world. But I was fortunate enough so like I started in gaming I got pretty lucky in the way that I got in there, again it’s just knowing people and you know having someone say, “Hey there there’s a role here for help desk and then PC technician.” But I had people there, they kind of – I don’t wanna say they were mentors but like I look at them now as mentees but they had somebody that you would kind of shadow and kind of train you, right? So more like a training-type program. Did you have something similar there? But it sounds like with that small of a team you know and being comfortable asking questions – like for me day one they were like, “Hey if you have a question, ask.” Like “We’re here to guide you.” Did you have that and did you feel comfortable using that right away? Because sometimes you’re like “Yeah I feel like I need to earn my stripes and or you know my knowledge, so that when I come with a question it’s not a dumb question.”

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah I definitely had that in direct and indirect ways you know I had other people on the team that were adjacent to me you know they hear me on the phone they might stop by and they say “Hey, you might want to take a look at this” or you know, “Hey there’s this thing going on” or “Hey here’s how you should go about this.” And then when it came to asking questions you know, there was always an open door policy when it came to asking questions but I think I had to learn to – I think my early days at that job when something was really broken and I wasn’t sure I was afraid to hold up resolution right? So I’d like run to my boss, my boss’s boss because my boss’s boss was like right behind my cube, so sometimes I’m just like “Hey there’s this thing happening, everything’s on fire, and she’s like “Calm down, what steps have you done?” And through that I realized like “Hey, you know, I got permission here to kind of try some things out figure it out learn about it.” And in that way I also learned like, “Hey I have to actually try these things so that way when I do come to these folks I I have something they can work with,” right? They don’t have to start at the bottom of the problem and so that was I think a good balance of like, hey, ask questions but also like for your own betterment too, learning, you know try these things out first and then not everything is a fire.

Manuel Martinez: And then not learning that everything’s a fire and then you know like we mentioned your friend like hey not everybody’s gonna have the answers and asking these questions – the question-asking to kind of find out the root problem – we touched on it before, right? Like hey, I deleted this file like is this a shortcut is this a problem? Like is it there that you’re also starting to learn how to ask better questions and communicate, right? Because there’s other teams of people and I think a lot of times we think that like “Oh, it’s just technical knowledge,” like you said it already, like there’s other people, but how did you start to develop or think to yourself like “Hey, I’ve done these steps,” or just asking better questions? Like I started on the help desk and that’s where the question-asking started for me is because I can’t see right I can’t say “Well show me.” That doesn’t work so I have to ask questions and the first couple times like similar to you I’d have to be like, “Hey well why don’t you ask them x, y, and z, like they could hear what I’m asking like bro if – you know like, “Is the screen on?” Ask them which button they touched on the screen right because a lot of times like “Oh, turn the computer on and off again. Okay yeah the screen’s black now, Okay, is it coming back up? No. Alright hit the button.” And just learning to ask the question like to find out like all they were doing was turning the monitor on and off they weren’t rebooting the PC like I was telling them “Hard reboot the PC” but the questions I was asking or the way that I was giving them information, we kept doing this

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so I think one thing that I was learning was learning your customers your user base and their understanding of certain technologies like you can talk to someone in finance and they’re in the ERP all day and that’s like all they know that’s because that’s what they do eight hours a day and then if you’re talking to a service tech you know like they might be an expert at you know product that they’re repairing out in the field but then when it comes to you know corporate technology you got to really walk them through it so I think learning your customers learning challenges they may have and also the environment in general you know that kind of stuff you know architecture, different things different people have to do based on where they’re at and their roles and how we make them figure their stuff to make their stuff work I think that’s where I kind of learned how to build up that information ahead of time whenever I had to escalate and and you know make sure I eliminated everything I could in my tool belt you know before having to. Unless it was like obviously certain situations are like all right we don’t got time we got to bring this up right but yeah I think it was really about just not giving up kind of like you know with breaking your computer as a kid like you better fix this man you got to get this going so trying to figure out everything you can before you completely bail on an issue because everything can be solved eventually or or it might not be completely fixed but it can be mitigated, so

Manuel Martinez: And then I’m trying to remember so – within that role you did kind of get a couple promotions within there right?

Andrew Ferrall: So that specific role – and this is where I learned about how mergers and acquisitions work – that specific role – so we were acquired by a bigger gaming company, a gaming manufacturing company and you know I think I was coming up about two years after – two years of working there by the time it closed and I decided that I had to pivot at that time so my title changed but it wasn’t really a promotion and it was an interesting experience it was – you know went from a smaller IT team that at times you know we ran very lean to kind of like not quite the size of UNLV’s IT department but to a bigger like department, different parts of IT that you may not work with you know because there’s layers between you so yeah I didn’t stick around for a promotion I decided that the environment for me at the time was – I think I needed to go you know. Just – I I felt like my career was slowing at that pace you know we’re going through the stresses of a merger and acquisition you’re seeing colleagues leave get new managers you’re not sure where your promotion you know ladder is there you know like how am I gonna navigate here and so I decided that time to kind of move out.

Manuel Martinez: And then did you feel comfortable enough then – like hey I have two two years of experience now like working kind of a little bit more so, at least – you felt a little bit more comfortable like maybe I’m not gonna get a promotion but at least I know I can make a lateral move to something similar?

Andrew Ferrall: I was definitely at that position in my career I was like okay I can try to move up or laterally move and have the opportunity to move up because I built up the two years like I was – really proud of like the different things we did you know we did a building move we did you know all kinds of projects we’d moved from Blackberry to iPhone which at the time seemed massive like now it’s like iPhones are so natural like naturally placed in the environment so in my mind in looking at my resume on paper the things that I’ve done, I felt like I was comfortable I could go into an environment and the fire hose would be a little bit smaller the flow would be a little more you know at a pace I can consume it and yeah so I I ended up making a lateral move because it was the best position out at the time and that’s what I did, yeah.

Manuel Martinez: And then talking through those you mentioned you know you felt comfortable with the resume that you had kind of built, the Career Center where they kind of helped you like, “Hey, highlight that,” – is that kind of looking back now is that what kind of made you think like, “Oh well here’s the things that I’ve done.” Like you said, if I put this down on paper like here’s everything I’ve accomplished well if I highlight this and you know if I pull this kind of story out and you know if they ask me for a situation like I have the stories to tell in an interview or you know even just networking to somebody else like hey this is what I’ve done or here’s what I know how to do is that kind of like slowly building that confidence to kind of go through and say well –

Andrew Ferrall: Exactly, I went from like okay how do I stretch what I have on my college experience to hey I actually got some concrete things I’ve done and also like talking to some of my colleagues that I worked with at the time who had already left but you know we’re still in touch and they were kind of mentors if you will they said hey you know like in your mind you’re just a support person but like you’re also kind of running projects you’re you’re helping the business with certain initiatives like you can tell a story here and and show the impact you made not just you know I close XYZ tickets and you know so many account lockouts and you know on call once a month you know, so I kind of learned that and that experience and brought in with what I learned from the Career Center to, like, how to – any job you apply for you have to present how you can fit into that and the best way to do that is you got to tailor your resume and also be able to you know if you get the interview show how you can use those skills.

Manuel Martinez: And when you say – kind of looking at it on paper – are you the kind of person that goes and like writes things down like projects now? Or kind of even during that time? Because I know some people that will- they’re really good at that. I’m not I try to get better at like – “Oh here’s the project,” and just – as much as I think I’ll remember it in the future that’s not always the case.

Andrew Ferrall: So I’ve actually been neglecting that a little bit but over the years up until my recent job I would you know anytime I did a big project , like you know – I’d try to make – I would make it a habit like maybe once a year twice a year go to my existing resume and just kind of add some things nowadays you might do it on LinkedIn too right like and you kind of just have that running thing but then yeah with the projects you know sometimes I found going there and writing those things down, no matter how significant the project, was helpful when it came time to actually – if I was looking you know or an opportunity came across my lap that someone wanted me to consider, like it was helpful to go there and and say hey would this look really good for that position or you know, can this really highlight some things? And I actually I’m kind of a fan of resumes you know that do highlight some of those things you know because that really tells the story

Manuel Martinez: Right.

Andrew Ferrall: You can put all your skills down and put some metrics down but like when you’re working in the real-life job you know it’s way more than that you know?

Manuel Martinez: Right and I think you bring up a great point is learning how to kind of tell that story and have that information and back in the day right my first couple resumes were like – to your point right – PC repair printer, blah blah blah blah – like and you listed out skills instead of highlighting it and telling it as a story and going through and one of the things that I’ve learned especially the last couple years is even if you’re not looking to move like you said hey I’m comfortable still kind of updating that resume because it could be helpful for a promotion right to having those stories and say hey look they may be aware you know because that was something that I had someone tell me is, “Yes your boss knows your job but they may not be the person that’s looking at it or may they they may not be the only one, and you’re not their only you know their only direct report. They might have five, ten – they’re not gonna remember everything or they might mix them up so you kind of have to go through and say here’s what I’ve done here’s why I deserve a raise, a promotion, or just you know maybe a bonus like who knows what it could be.

Andrew Ferrall: And titles mean different things to everybody right so sometimes you could have a – like a lower title but you’re doing senior level work and you’re running things, and when you decide to apply for a job that has a title you might be afraid to apply for it just like, “Oh man, look at that title,” but then you look at what you actually did and you convey that and the future or prospective employer might look at that and say “Oh wow, this guy actually did do this stuff that we’re looking for it’s not just, you know, what his title conveys.

Manuel Martinez: So then at one point in your career I saw that you were kind of like a systems technician and a lot of times, a lot of what you’re doing is that right? It’s like that general breadth of knowledge and then you kind of go into like a – more of like a systems admin, systems administrator – is that – is that just you continuing to build your skill set and say, “Hey I want to move up to this next level”? Like what is it that kind of drove you to kind of continue to move up? Everybody’s different like I – some people it’s like, “I wanted to make more money” or “I wanted the title” or you know.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so I knew – you know after I’d been doing the support thing for a couple years like systems admin was probably my next logical step. At the time networks was just – I knew I didn’t want to do that. I needed to know enough to operate and be able to talk to a network person you know, but I knew I didn’t want to be a network engineer or anything like that, so systems was kind of something I targeted and you know I had the opportunity to work with – my first job’s VP of IT, after the acquisition he was out and he decided to go start an MSP, so shortly after I made that lateral move out of the company I basically took on another desktop support job. Shortly after that, conveniently, you know, I didn’t take this desktop job to only be there for a couple months but it just worked out that three months into that job my former VP of IT had started this MSP and he invited me to come join his MSP and work with another colleague of mine that – we all work at the same company, and so I was like, “Well I don’t know if this is gonna get me to a CIS Admin job but I’m kind of – this current desktop job is a little too easy, it was secure, it was great, like I was I was – had great benefits, you know, way less stressful – and all the good stuff, but I was like sitting there going “Okay I could sit here do this desktop job, don’t know where I can end up here, how many years I got to wait, you know, before that next step comes, or I can go try this MSP thing. I’m early enough in my career, it’s only gonna benefit me.” And so I made the hop there and that was like awesome doing jack-of-all-trades things working with different businesses you know we we worked with – you know we had a mall management company we worked with we had a – you know some bar and tavern owners, someone had a coffee shop downtown so you’d just go in these different environments and get your hands in different things, some stuff more traditional corporate IT, some stuff is simple as like, “Hey, we need good Wi-Fi in our place, you know, what can you help us out with?” or “Hey we need to go spit up an Office 365 subscription, we have no idea how to do it,” or “Hey we want to stop using GoDaddy email, wanna migrate to Exchange”, you know. So I started getting all kinds of different skills that I just don’t think I would have gotten exposed to and one of our customers who was also a gaming manufacturing company hired us on to do support – it was actually kind of what brought me into that role – I ended up getting some exposure with them, my manager at the time end up going there, and then maybe a year later they had an opening for SysAdmin and that was my entry way into becoming a SysAdmin which was kind of my logical next step and that was kind of like, I think, a combination of having those different exposures, you know, and you know just being able to troubleshoot different things and take everything on and also having – kind of the theme is networking again, right? Like having someone who’d say, “Hey I’ve worked with Andrew and he’s also familiar with our environment because he was at the MSP that supported us, and you know we can go hire a seasoned SysAdmin and they might not work out or we can give Andrew a shot and let him grow into the position.” And that’s kind of how I landed there.

Manuel Martinez: Twice now or almost kind of like three times, you mentioned like the people that you worked with and kind of knowing somebody – is it your – like what is it that you think about you specifically that these people kind of called out to, right? Now we will never know I mean unless you go and decide to ask them and say, “Hey, was I the first choice or was I the tenth choice?” And in this situation I don’t think it matters because even if you were like the tenth choice, like, you were a choice. You could have been the 11th, and the 11th they could have been like, “Uh uh. I don’t want – I’ve worked with Andrew and I don’t want to work with Andrew.” But you know, is it your constant – what are you doing in these roles? Is it just learning and having the exposure and saying, “Okay, hey I can learn, you know, I I work well with other people.” Like what do you think really kind of helps set you apart for these people to want to go through and say, “Hey I’m over here, I vouch for this, you know, I vouch for Andrew because I’ve worked with them,” as opposed to like, “Hey, yeah, there’s a role over there maybe you want to apply.” But you know I’m not gonna bring you with me.”

Andrew Ferrall: I think looking back at it, it was probably – for one I think it’s work ethic you know. I’ll do a lot of work that is part of my role and then sometimes outside my role, troubleshooting. I really – sometimes I get too far in the weeds of troubleshooting, sometimes I’ll get hooked on an issue and I’m like, “I’m gonna figure this out.” But I think it was also just building trust with those people that have brought me along the way. My manager that brought me into that role, this was like the third job I’d worked with her, so she saw me come up from a support person, you know, who was running into her office saying, “Hey, everything’s on fire I don’t know what to do,” to like, “Hey, he really does his homework, he can triage things, he knows when to escalate, when to not, and we know he can pick up – he can pick up things.” And then also I think just having good soft skills. Working in the MSP environment, you’re working with all kinds of folks, different businesses, and then when you’re working with small businesses – like you’re working with their CEO, right? Like working with the person that runs the business every single day. So being able to handle different, you know, pressures and different understandings, and technologies and being able to make recommendations, tell them the hard facts sometimes. It’s like, “Hey, you could do it this way but this is the way you should do it,” you know? So I think the work ethic, the trust, and the aptitude to learn is really what encouraged folks at that time of my career to take a shot on me, “Bring him in”, and you know set me up for that position.

Manuel Martinez: And those communication skills, is that something that you – obviously it sounds like similar experiences of where I’ve had- like I said talking about the help desk – but it’s just – you’re getting better at it just the more you’re doing it, just the more exposure especially that wide range of exposure. It’s not like you’re dealing with the same – it is the same customers but it’s not the same type of customer, like in gaming, if you’re talking to food and beverage, like – it’s the same food and beverage but it’s like, “Okay, this is food and beverage, this is the casino pit-” like they all have their level of knowledge of you know their expertise, what they consider a priority versus what you do, right? Like if the casino pit is calling you about an issue or you know something like that, versus, – I don’t want to diminish it, but let’s say like housekeeping, where’s that priority level? You know, yes that’s on fire, that’s more customer-facing, there’s a lot more potential for revenue impact and I understand that – okay, sure, there’s a housekeeping issue like – again, that’s guests, but learning how to talk to them and say, “Hey, I get it, everything’s on fire,” and that – you probably learned that just yourself, like, “Okay, not everything is – right – is a catastrophe,” but you know is it really just experience and just exposure to multiple things that you think makes you better at it, or were you also at the same time like, “Okay I need to get better at this through training or reading whatever it is,”?

Andrew Ferrall: I think for me it’s just – exposure to different folks and different environments and you know – it’s definitely something I probably – I definitely need to work on it. It not a skill that I think you ever perfect. You only – you’re only exposed to what you’re exposed to and you never know what someone’s gonna say, but as you get into different environments too there’s norms and there’s – you know, there’s SLAs and then there’s like, okay, you know what the real SLA is. And I think through experience and practice, you know, that’s – that’s kind of how I gained those communication skills. And you know it’s funny, like some some rooms I can walk into and just you know, all right, start having a conversation, and then some rooms are like, “Alright I better sit back here and – you know – make sure I present things a certain way.” And I also think what really helps too is being able to break technology down. you know not everyone needs the full like, in-the-weeds resolution.

Manuel Martinez: Right.

Andrew Ferrall: You know sometimes they just need to know one or two things. Make them feel like they understand it, make them feel like, “Oh yeah, I know this,” you know, I think that’s something that’s helped over the years with the communication, I think that’s helped build some trust with different people I’ve worked with, and who’ve trusted me to take responsibility on certain things.

Manuel Martinez: So then now you’re in the systems role, right, and you’ve mentioned like – for most people they feel like that’s a natural progression, right? If you started in PC support you’re either going to systems, you’re going to networking, you’re going somewhere there. Are you – now that you’re in the systems role, did you have a plan of like, “Okay, I want to get towards like an architect level position,” or is it more like, “I just want to be a really good systems person and I’ll figure it out.” Like some people have that progression, or at least maybe at least what’s one or two steps ahead, and there’s others like myself that are just like, “I need to figure this out first and then I’ll figure out maybe what the next step is when it gets to that point.

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so again, I was given another fire hose at a high velocity and

Manuel Martinez: And probably a bigger one right?

Andrew Ferrall: So I went from like, “Alright, I’m finally a SysAdmin,” to like, “Oh man, what do I do?” But no I mean, I think I was so fresh into the position that I was like, “Alright, I’m here, this is – I’m not gonna be SysAdmin forever but I like – foreseeable future, this is where I want to be.” And you know we were doing so many different projects. We were on the buying side of a merger this time so – so I basically was you know put into a domain migration and on-prem email to cloud migration, and so I was learning a lot of different things – again, kind of like talking about when you’re in school like – you don’t know what the real world is like and you’re like, “Oh, this is – this is the real technical behind-the-scenes stuff in a merger I wasn’t exactly exposed to.” Like, you know, we got to get everyone in the same email so they can look at the same Outlook address book and you know we want to get off these on-premise exchange servers and stuff like that. So I was in that position to kind of just start taking every single opportunity to learn, and I had to, there was no like – you needed to do this, or else you weren’t gonna stay afloat. So I was kind of in a position at that moment like – “Alright, I’m gonna be doing this for a couple years,” and I didn’t even actually have a- like at least a five-year outlook of like where I wanted to go next, and so that’s that’s where I was at that moment.

Manuel Martinez: Right, and that role like you said, because you’re doing all these different things it probably – did you enjoy kind of that constant change and the constant learning, and is that – because it sounds like, just based on what you’re saying, is like hey, that other desktop support role like – “This is pretty easy.” Is it – while it feels uncomfortable to have like this stream of knowledge like drinking out of this firehose, and you’re like, “Wait a minute I thought I – thought this was a bigger one -” like okay, there’s different levels and there’s different speeds to – these types of roles and the types of information, but did you at the same time think, “This is what I’ve been looking for – I want that next challenge”?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so that’s exactly what I was enjoying the most was just like – alright I’m learning some really advanced stuff, at least I thought it was at the time, you know, and I had some long days but when I was looking at it I was looking at it like, “Alright, I don’t know what’s next after five years,” you know, “After I get tired of being a SysAdmin. But I know this is gonna really propel me into whatever that position is gonna be.” And you know in that role I was able to – the best part I think, even though I was a SysAdmin, I was still interacting with people, especially as part of the domain migration. So I was part of the domain migration, I was having to travel to like our other office across country, meet engineers who, you know, weren’t exactly thrilled about their company being bought. That’s what I’ve learned is – like with mergers it’s a sensitive situation for both sides like – it’s a really challenging process for people, and so when it comes to the technology all I can do is try to make that transition easier for them, and as simple as possible so at least when it comes to them being able to do their job they don’t have to worry about that. So in this domain migration I was going across country working with these folks and kind of getting to know their day-to-day and learning about different challenges they have and so that’s what’s really – what really made me like thrive in that position I think was all the technical stuff I was learning but also just, again, talking about the communication and the people skills development there. That was something I didn’t even think of when I was going in that SysAdmin role. When I first took the role you know I was thinking, “Alright, you know, I’m gonna manage some storage, make sure AD’s replicating, backups, and like – it really turned into more like a cross-functional position where you’re – kind of like what we talked about, why I wanted to go into information Systems is like – you’re interacting with the whole business, the whole picture, not just, you know, the screens and the ones and zeros and whatnot.

Manuel Martinez: And if I remember correctly around this time I think you also kind of stepped into like – in a management role, or you know it could be by title, you know I’ve had one where it was a management role but it was still very technical, like very hands-on, sure there was a team underneath. And it sounds like you kind of enjoy like – helping people, right? Like you understand that the human aspect of it, right, like the communication skills – is that – was that kind of like a a conscious choice? Did you think at some point like, “I want to try management and like I want to kind of be that kind of person” or is it more – I don’t want to say you were forced, but sometimes you know like you’re promoted up just because you are – it seems like you do really well at your job, and they’re like, “Hey, he can communicate, he can- he has a technical skills, maybe we can do – you know maybe he might thrive in this type of – ?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, so this was I think at the MSP before I jumped into SysAdmin, but yeah I was – this actually you know came out of my boss at the SysAdmin job for AGS – when she had left, my boss at the MSP said, “Hey, you got to do her job now I’m gonna promote you to a Network Support Manager,” and that basically gave me the responsibility of kind of instead of doing the technical work at the MSP – I’m still doing the technical work but also like, “Hey, you got to propose these solutions, you have to you know, listen to them as a customer, you know, give them feedback on how things are going based on whatever services were contracted to do” – and that’s something, you know, I never foresaw, but also from a long-term perspective you know, maybe the 10 year, 15 year point, I’m like, “Hey this is, you know, this might be where I want to be someday maybe – While I didn’t have direct reports underneath me, you know, I was kind of managing operations of – of a business initiative you know and so that was something that I enjoyed and I think one of those things you you put in your belt you know in terms of a tool and from experience.

Manuel Martinez: And even that experience, you think it – especially now, kind of now remembering the timeline, the fact that that was early on, even though you weren’t managing people, having that knowledge and that expertise that probably – do feel that that helped you later on just having that – again another, you know, another tool in that tool belt to kind of go through and say, “Oh, I understand now.” So when I managed I also kind of got a little – call like a peek behind the curtain, like you understand – how do you – we have to put budgets together, we have to know how this – all this operational stuff works – and one of the things that similar to you I was like, “Eh, maybe I’m not ready” – so my next role went back to an individual contributor but it helped me understand – I think I became also a better employee at that point right? Because I’m like, “Oh I I know what my manager is going through so how can I be better at what I do to try and not be, you know, like a burden or something extra that they have to think about?”

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, i think it helped me understand that like, you know, sometimes in our environments we’re told something just needs to happen and you’re like, “Why? This doesn’t make any sense. Who made this decision?” and then you realize like, sometimes you don’t always have the full picture, and like I think being in that role is like – okay, they want it to be this way and there’s a reason. And so in my current role now even you know, even though I have some influence when something comes down the pipe and it’s not my decision, I’m like all right, someone – someone has a good reason for this and I as the “consultant” if you will, can say hey, I think this is a bad idea because x y z just want to let you know. And then you got to accept whatever comes out of that decision-wise. And then also I think it helps you be less frustrated, you know?

Manuel Martinez: So now this SysAdmin, you’re gaining all this experience and you know you’re getting more challenges and – what makes you kind of decide, hey, I want to kind of move into that next step? Is it really like “I’ve had these challenges here, maybe I’m not learning as much,” maybe again you’re not seeing the upward progression, which again is natural right? Sometimes you do get to kind of move up sometimes you got to move out, sometimes it sounds like you know, someone calls you out and says “Hey, like there’s this thing over here,” and makes you aware of it. So just from a career standpoint I know that you’re not looking at that 10-year plan but at least, you know, the next couple years and says, “Okay what do I what I want to do next?” And I’m gonna kinda preface this a little bit – as you’re doing a little bit of this systems work, and then you told us earlier it’s more on the security side – so was there kind of a natural shift? Was it planned or did it just kind of happen?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so I was about two years into my SysAdmin role at AGS at the time and domain migration was kind of winding down you know kind of starting to unify as a company, and stabilizing. You know there’s there’s been some changes internally and I got a new boss and I was happy. You know I wasn’t planning on leaving but then one day I got a LinkedIn connection request from a recruiter and over the years you know I’d get those every now and then and you know usually they were for roles I would take on earlier in my career, not at that time, it just wasn’t a good fit or for whatever reason, and this one piqued my interest and so they they said the right words in the connection request and I was like, “Alright, I’ll listen about this, you know, I’m pretty happy where I am, you know.”

Manuel Martinez: And when you mentioned the right words – and again you don’t have to get into details – but is it more the right words of like, “Hey this is a challenge” or it’s “Hey those are skills I want to pick up”? Again you don’t have to go to detail but just from a general standpoint like what is it that piqued your interest? Because I’ve had those and sometimes it’s just, you know, oh this skill set like, well I don’t have that, maybe I’ll give that a try.

Andrew Ferrall: So for me it was a – more of an organization interest. So they mentioned SysAdmin, so I’m thinking lateral move right? Like okay, it’s gotta be great if I want to move laterally, but they mentioned you know a sports organization from the Bay Area and it’d just been a couple months after the Raiders announced they’re gonna move here and I’m thinking like, “Okay, well, there’s no way this is the Raiders, like – it’s 2017, like they’re not gonna play football here till 2020 but okay, I’ll – I’ll learn more about it.” And they send me the job description and some of it was stuff – even SysAdmin, title wise – but some of the stuff I wasn’t like completely sure, I didn’t have familiarity with like, “Okay, you’re gonna support a POS system, you’re gonna support some e-commerce efforts, retail stores, and then you know there’s gonna be a sales office and… but she’s a sports organization and you know I’ve talked about, like I love sports you know, and I kind of had something in me from my uncle when I was in college, like my uncle worked in horse racing and he’s a huge sports fan, but he was really into horse racing, and he made a career out of working in PR in horse racing, and like he knew he wanted to be a journalist but he also knew he wanted to be in the sports industry so he found a way to like tie the two. So in my mind as I was graduating UNLV I was like, “You know, it’d be cool to get a job in sports someday.” I threw in some applications as I was on my way out, nothing really came of it, I got an interview with somewhere. But nothing really came out of it, and you know I just kept on with my career, kept the progression going, you know I wanted to work in technology, that was the main thing you know, so I didn’t care if it was gaming, an MSP, you know, travel site, didn’t care. Like I won’t – was the main goal at that point in my career. So at this point I’m like, “Alright, well, I’ve made some progress in my career – man it’d be cool to work for a sports team, you know? Like if this is the right fit, you know, this this could be it, this would be awesome.” And so she screened me, didn’t tell me who it was right away until she’d screened me and decided it was a good-enough fit to pass-up, she’s like, “Okay, well this position’s with the Raiders, are you still interested?” I’m like, “Yeah, absolutely,” you know? But at the same time though where I was at with my current job I was like I’m in a good spot like – domain migrations, we have offices around the country, I got to travel to Mexico City, got to go to Atlanta, you know, got to do some travel and I had my hands in a lot of systems and responsibilities that just two years prior I didn’t think I would have for a long time. So I was like kind of still a little hesitant about it but I was like, “I’m gonna interview and I’m gonna see what this is about.” And you know a couple interviews later I’m leaving that job to go work for the to be Las Vegas Raiders.

Manuel Martinez: And I want to ask a little bit more about that, about kind of weighing the options, right? Because sure it’s one thing to say, you know, “Hey, I work for a sports organization or work for x company, sometimes again a name does influence or maybe an industry, but you talked about it right? Like “Hey, I got to travel.” You were touching technologies that two years prior which is – I mean yes technology changes quick but obviously at the same time you’re building up the reputation as somebody that can handle that or you know kind of take on these challenges. I think a lot of times people and I’ve done it, where I’ve made a move for money, or I’ve made a move – you know you talked about like, hey, shooting your shot, and sometimes people might not shoot that shot just because like, “Well it’s so good here and it’s-” you know, you hear all those things like – hey, sometimes it’s not always better somewhere else, like – yes, maybe I don’t like this thing here, but going over there it may be better at first, but then in the long run you might be like, “I should have stayed,” right? So kind of, at that time, how did you come up with the decision to say like, “Okay, I still can grow here like I’m a SysAdmin and I could probably move up to an architect level here or I can do other things – you know it’s a big national corporation, right? Like you can – you’re traveling places, maybe you can even relocate, and say, “Oh, I can go work for another building.” What came – how did you weigh that decision? And the reason I bring that up is because I want people to understand that you know, it doesn’t matter at what point in your career – like you have those decisions. There’s benefits – it’s not always money, it’s not always the role, it’s – what did you evaluate?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so for me I was trying to look at “Okay, what what would be my growth path at this next job if I got it?” And that’s even something I brought up in the interview because you know – not knowing what internal operations of a sports team was like, you know? Am, I you know, just fixing printers and computers all day, or am I actually like – what are the inner workings and responsibilities and what’s your five-year plan for me? You know, where could I end up? So – so I had to make sure when I was interviewing I asked those questions and really understood what I could grow into, because at the time of when they approached me for the job I was gonna go from running corporate systems, you know being one of the main admins for it, to like, “Alright – got a preview center, we got some retail stores, we got ecom, and I was getting a lot of good experience it was a great experience but I just didn’t know I was like “I’m giving up a lot of responsibility kind of going back into some of the stuff that I was doing at the MSP, which was valuable stuff but it wasn’t always the most – it wasn’t the stuff that popped out on a resume, right? So I wanted to make sure that I was going to a position that I wasn’t gonna maybe six months, a year, call back the prior employer like, hey you know, I’m kind of bored here I’m kind of tapped out. So that was like number one for me it was progression. I was getting paid good at my last job so I wasn’t hurting for money I had no idea what the salary expectations were for this job yet because it was so early on, and I kind of wanted to figure it out before I jumped in the interviews because the fact that they sent a recruiter after me, that like they were trying to be picky about who they were hiring, so I was like, “Alright, I don’t want to waste anybody’s time, I want to get this right.” And so for me it was definitely about at that moment career progression in terms of five years and was I going to continue scaling up and not get stale with whatever I was working on?

Manuel Martinez: And that – interviewing them right because I think a lot of times people forget especially early on in your career, I’m guessing if you’re anything like me you’re just, you know, when they ask you like do you have any questions or you know stuff like that, you’re like no, it sounds great, right? Because you’re just – you think that it’s just them interviewing you but over time did you just get better at understanding those types and and asking those types of questions?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so through the years of the different jobs I had after college I learned like it’s not good to have – not have any questions like that’s a huge red flag right? Not a huge one, I mean depends on who’s interviewing, but you know You want to show interest and also show that you’re thinking about how you would fit in and and you’re communicating you know, what the expectations are from your end and making sure they line up with theirs. So yeah luckily by the time I had gotten that interview I’d had that experience and I made sure I asked those questions going in like, what do you see this job being in five years, you know, is this job going to go away when the team gets here you know like that was that was another concern I had, because I just, you know, you didn’t know and I didn’t know the inner workings of a sports team and so yeah I made sure I prepared for that and made sure I had all the answers to my questions so if an offer materialized and I was going to give up what I had at my current job – because again this was just all happenstance, I was not looking at that time, I wanted to make sure I knew what I was giving – what I was gonna give up and what I was going to get in return if I left, so.

Manuel Martinez: So then you get into this role and – I’m pretty sure like you mentioned it seems – it might have seemed a little bit at the time like you’re kind of taking a step back but based on kind of the answers you knew that, okay, there’s going to be a progression right? It’s just how long is that going to take, what’s that look like? But it happened right you start to progress your career and then what leads you towards kind of your current role now?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah so you know early on it was all about, “Hey we got these temporary offices here in Las Vegas, we’ve got to get them up.” We’re gonna have a sales center, we’re gonna have a call center, we’re gonna have these retail stores and that was actually way more of an experience than I thought it was going to be like it was I was completely wrong like like you know setting up I set up you know store networks for retail stores like our first three or four of them here from you know getting the internet connectivity set up to working with a low voltage contractor, something I’d never done before, getting the equipment on the wall getting our POS set up that was that was a whole lot of experience I had a whole new appreciation for and then just you know as they started moving things out here, you know, getting my hands in the more traditional corporate technologies like Active Directory, Office 365. So from that point on to the point that the team got here I started getting more acclimated with the entire organization and then eventually football team arrives and getting some exposure to the football side. And so over those years you know I basically – I’ve been been there like nine years now but I think about 2020 was three or four years – I’d become very familiar with the environment and I started gaining the trust of my boss in terms of like making sure we do things securely and making sure we’re not always taking the easy way out when it comes to like last minute issues you know. Asking the right questions at the right time like, “Hey we could put this in the cloud but is that the best place for it given what we need to protect?” Or you know, “Should this be left unattended in this area?” you know stuff like that so eventually a need came up for a dedicated security person, not outside of IT but still in IT, but basically a person who is at the table when we’re talking about new IT initiatives and going, “Okay, how are we going to make sure this is compliant with XYZ? Is this the right way to do this, is the most secure way?” And kind of being that that check, and that’s kind of how I got into the role I am now, and again another opportunity of, I think, me building trust through hard work, asking questions, building knowledge of the environment, and that I think is what kind of led me into my current role being a Security Architect.

Manuel Martinez: Looking back at it now, all this different exposure you had to different areas and even when you get into you know this organization, the fact that you were doing a lot of this kind of from the ground up, right? Again it’s more exposure so I think

one: It’s got to be pretty cool to to set something up from the ground up right? Because now you’ve been there from the get-go to kind of understand that but also get that exposure – do you think over time, like you said – sure it’s building the trust but asking those questions and understanding, like, “Hey, I’ve been through a merger and acquisition I’ve been through kind of all these different things”, is that what’s helped you to ask those better questions and even know what questions to ask? Because now you’ve – it takes time right? And it takes experience but you know you it sounds like you’ve had exposure to a lot more different things you know in smaller bursts, I should say. And then is that kind of what leads you to kind of that role? Like you’ve gained the trust to be able to ask those questions where she was like “Hey, we need somebody with a seat at the table, and you’re thinking of these things because, “Hey, should we leave this unattended because I know that I worked at this coffee shop and when they did that – granted it was a small coffee shop – here’s what could have happened.” But just kind of pulling back on those experiences now here’s like, well – “If we leave this unattended, it’s not a small coffee shop, it is a big stadium,” or you know, even the retail store like, “The amount of people that flow through there is this and here’s a potential risk.”

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, I think having those different exposures definitely helps, and you know sometimes there’s probably things I’ve learned after the fact unfortunately because something happened you know? But yeah I think as I’ve had to interact with different things and in different perspectives like that motivates me to ask questions and and try to think about the what ifs and sometimes be the annoying person like “Why are you even worried about this?” Like, I’ve seen it happen, or I read about it, or didn’t think about it one time and then it happened. So yeah I definitely think that for sure.

Manuel Martinez: And you mentioned reading about it so is that something that you especially in this role and even prior like is that something that your current knowledge and – I know we talked about a lot of things and it’s one of the things that I wanted to ask you is like – how are you building up knowledge outside of work? Because it sounded like you know you talked about other areas and I don’t remember if it came up in a conversation if, you know – certifications or it’s just kind of reading and being aware of kind of other technology – even if you’re not using it but just kind of being aware. So like how do you stay up to date and kind of gather that knowledge?

Andrew Ferrall: So I definitely rely on the internet a lot. I try to read a little bit of Reddit every day. I know that sounds super simple and not sophisticated but there’s so much, and there’s there’s hundreds of technology subreddits you know, depending on what focus you want to go on, but I I try to go on the cyber security one every day, see what people are talking about, LinkedIn obviously, you build your network of people that have like-minded interests and you see things on there. So I’m constantly just going out there trying to read trying to listen to some podcasts here and there too, the news, and then trying to just stay up on things and then luckily in my position a lot of things fall in my lap. AI, right? Everyone’s into AI, everyone’s heard of it everyone’s talking about it. So I kind of get pushed in a direction like hey I better go figure this out like so when someone comes to my office and says hey what do you think about this, should we we turn this on, like I kind of have some idea of it, and so I can start asking myself okay what should I care about here? What are the risks, what are things we got to worry about, you know? But I’m a huge proponent of just going out there and trying to stay up on things even if it’s a few minutes a day you know. Yeah that’s – and then talking to people too, like you and different people in my network.

Manuel Martinez: Cool. So I know that we touched on a lot, and yeah I mean, it’s – you mentioned at the beginning, right, like some of the things that – kind of looking back like – being able to kind of take that shot. But then also I think understanding that taking those calculated shots, right, something that you over time have kind of learned, like, “Hey, I gotta ask these questions, like: Sure, I’m gonna go through and apply for it and you know if I get the chance like – okay, one thing, I shoot the shot and say, “Alright, let me stretch myself,” but then once you get that opportunity – okay now I have to start being a little bit more calculated, I can’t just you know, throw a bunch of balls up and say, well one of these is gonna land right? Like I’d say okay, well hold on, I need to put myself in a position to be able to do that. Is there anything throughout your career as part of the conversation that you think either we missed or we kind of glossed over that you think is important, or something that you want to talk about, or just kind of summarize your career?

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah I mean I think what’s helped me in my career is, you know, trying to learn everywhere you are, trying to make the most of it and really gauging – you know, whether you are learning and growing because I think that’s really what makes your career trajectory. If you’re doing the same thing every day and and you’re not really learning, your skills become stale, you probably get bored maybe get grumpy, you know, and it depends where everyone’s at in their career. right? Everyone’s a different place, different career. You look at career opportunities differently given your personal situation, your life situation, but I think the biggest thing that’s the most important is learning and that’s something I always try to hammer on when I talk to some mentees I have is like, you know, you got to start somewhere and if you start somewhere that’s lower than you want to be,

ask yourself: Are you learning? You know obviously make sure you can pay your bills and you’re getting paid what you’re worth but also early on in your career like you can afford to stretch yourself a little bit and and take a role on that’s gonna kind of like a long-term investment for your career if you will, and pay dividends down the road for you. And maybe you’re sitting in the chair and you’re like, “Oh yeah I’m glad I went through that I never thought that would have impacted me today but it did, and that’s – that’s kind of my big thing, is making sure you’re learning.

Manuel Martinez: And I’m glad you

touched on two things: One, the constant learning and two is just – it can pay dividends in the long end right, in the long run, because I think a lot of times, and one of the reasons that I try to bring up, you know, bring different guests is – okay there’s different experiences but I don’t think I’ve talked to any person here that said “Hey I came out after my first role, like I jumped from that to like the lead architect” or “I jumped from here” and just

exposing to people like: Hey, it’s it’s a journey, it’s good to have a plan, you know, and think of where you want to go but just know that as long as you’re taking those daily steps, like, “Hey, am I constantly learning, am I doing the things that are going to get me there to, where – ” I don’t think people realize it but it will happen more often than not if you’re putting that story together like you said on LinkedIn or your resume wherever – eventually those dividends are recruiters are now going to come to you and say “Hey, we want you from this pool because we see that you’ve built this skill set up over 10 years or 12 years”, whatever that is.

Andrew Ferrall: And to also add to that too is like, if you start at a lower position than you think you are sometimes you might develop some imposter syndrome you know because like “Well I couldn’t start at that position before because I wasn’t sure,” like – at some point when an opportunity comes along and you think you got enough, even if it’s a little bit, you think it’s enough, you can cover like half the bullet points on the description you know or some of the key things like – go for it, you know? If you’re ready you gotta, you can’t hold yourself back you know you have to – sometimes you have to make that jump on your own, so.

Manuel Martinez: I like that, I don’t think anybody’s really brought that up is that could be how imposter syndrome kind of develops like, “Oh, I didn’t get that I got this lower one, well, maybe this is where I am supposed to be.” But once you get there like, you’ll grow into it right? As long as you’re constantly learning you’ll get there, right? Like no one – again, I don’t think anybody comes out of college and is like, “Cool, I’m ready to run, you know, multinational organizations.” Even though you think you are, but that’s not the case.

Andrew Ferrall: And then you just never know where that work’s going to bring you.

Manuel Martinez: Well, I appreciate you kind of coming in and sharing your career and just kind of your experiences and the things that you know have kind of worked for you, and you know, along the way there’s things that probably didn’t but hopefully, you know, just kind of exposing people to like – Hey, there’s multiple ways to get there and this is what worked for you – and again, nobody’s going to be able to follow your path exactly, but hopefully there’s bits and pieces that they can say, “Ah, let me try this,” and you know, “Andrew mentioned that that could work.”

Andrew Ferrall: Yeah, I’m definitely glad I could come here and share my story.

Manuel Martinez: And for everyone that’s watching and listening, again, thank you for taking the time, and you know hopefully you’re finding as much value out of all these conversations as I am, because even though I’ve been in the industry for a while like – you know, as Andrew was telling his story, there’s things in there that I’d learn, and I was like, “Oh,” you know, it just a different perspective, right? Am I going to always go and implement what he said? No, but it will help me think differently and adapt that to something that will work for me. So with that, continue to plug in and download the knowledge, and until next time, thank you.