Leveling Up in Tech with Oscar Diaz | Episode 011

In this episode of Career Downloads, we’re joined by Oscar Diaz, a seasoned tech professional who takes us through the second half of his career journey. Oscar shares his experiences transitioning from government IT roles to becoming a Technical Account Manager, offering valuable insights for both newcomers and veterans in the tech industry.

Key discussion points include:

1. The transition from technical roles to management and back again
2. The value of certifications and effective study techniques
3. Balancing technical expertise with essential soft skills
4. The critical importance of continuous learning in IT
5. Strategies for explaining complex tech concepts to non-technical stakeholders
6. Tips for career growth and finding your niche in the ever-evolving tech landscape

Oscar’s story is a testament to the diverse opportunities within the tech world. He emphasizes that it’s never too late to enter the field or pivot your career, as long as you’re passionate and willing to learn. His journey showcases how skills from various IT roles can culminate in positions like Technical Account Management, where understanding both the technical and business sides is crucial.

Whether you’re considering a career in tech, looking to advance in your current IT role, or curious about the day-to-day of a Technical Account Manager, this episode provides practical advice and real-world insights. Oscar’s experiences highlight the interconnectedness of technology across industries and the importance of adaptability in building a successful tech career.

Tune in to hear Oscar’s perspective on the challenges and rewards of working in tech, and gain valuable advice for navigating your own career path in this dynamic field.

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Manuel: And I know we’ve talked a little bit about certifications in the past and kind of what are your thoughts towards them. So obviously I know that they are beneficial, but what’s the benefit that you see? Is it having that on your resume to try and get another role? Is it, you know, I’ve talked to different people and again, everybody has a slightly different idea of what the benefit is to you. So is it having something to put, you know, a couple of letters to put on your resume? Is it going through and forcing yourself to learn, you know, that technology? Sure, you can learn it hands-on, but I think with the certifications, it’s a very almost a prescriptive way. Like you have to know this material. So what are your thoughts on certifications, I guess in general?

Oscar: It’s a double-edged sword with certifications, right? Some people think, oh, I just go get this cert and I’m an expert. The certification doesn’t say that, right? It just certifies that you know this portion of it or this much of this topic. And you know, I’ve worked with some people who are just go take the cert, but then know nothing of that product or just leave it alone afterwards. I think there’s still a lot of benefit to it because as you’re studying for the certification, whether you like it or not, you’re learning these things, right? Even if you’re just reading the same thing over and over, it’s going to stick in your head what these things are. So I always recommend go ahead and take the cert. As a starting point and a lot of people will say, oh, I don’t have enough experience to go take that cert. No, let that be your starting point, right? Go ahead and study for that cert because you have an end goal. If I just tell you, go ahead, Manny, you start study for IT, whoa, where do I start? [Laughter] It’s so broad and there’s so much information, but if I tell you, go ahead and study for this Server 2012 exam. You know exactly what needs to be studied, what’s going to be covered, and in the process you’re learning and that leads you to, okay, the server connects to a switch, okay, that switch connects to a router, that router connects out to the internet, oh, it needs DNS, oh, it needs DHCP or, you know, it leads you to different avenues. So I always recommend go ahead and study that cert. It’s not going to get you a job. It’s not because you still have to go interview for this position and if you don’t know anything of it, you’re probably not going to get that job, but it’s a very good starting point and it gets you in that thought process to open your eyes to how vast the network is, how vast IT is, but yeah, I would say a certification doesn’t just, nobody’s going to come knocking down your door because you have a few certs.

Manuel: And is that something that when you’re studying, so I know a lot of people and you mentioned it, right, they’re going through, they’re studying for their certification, they pass it and they don’t know anything about it, and you said something right now, you’re like, DNS, DHCP, like routers. So as you’re studying, are you, especially if it’s new to you, are you making notes of things that maybe are mentioned? So like, let’s say I’m just starting out and I’m like, hey, I’m studying for a server, you know, Server 2019, you know, Microsoft certification. On there it says configure DHCP and it will tell you how to configure it, right, for a Server 2019 server, but it doesn’t tell you what DHCP is or how it works. So your study process or your thought process where you like, well, okay, I’ll learn how to configure it for the certification and for this. But are you making notes to say, all right, now I need to go figure out what DHCP is and how that works. Oh, DNS is on here too. What is that, kind of what, what’s some of the things that you do to study for certifications and how does that kind of help broaden your knowledge?

Oscar: Yeah, so for me, I’m not much of a note taker, like my notes, I know it’s terrible as an IT person, excuse me, but my notes are in my head, just my brain is all over the place, right? So that’s why I study a little slower probably than most people. So as I would read these different things, my first thought is, let me go do this, let me go do this and see what it does, right? So as I’m reading, I’ll read the chapter and then I’ll go and implement it or try to implement it and break it or have it not work. I’m like, why isn’t this working? And I don’t just look for, you know, step by step because that’s easy. You won’t really learn much that way, right? So I’ll go and break it or try to fix it. And in that process, you just kind of learn, like that goes back to my previous, that very first job I had, right? The troubleshooting. I had nobody to ask, right? I mean, I could send an email and that sometimes that guy would respond, other times it’d be like two or three days later. It wasn’t like now where you can text somebody or, you know, it wasn’t that instant. So yeah, that’s the way I study is, I’ll read it and that’s fine. Let me make sure that I processed it. Let me make sure that I understood what I was reading and not just reading these words. So I would go and do it either in the lab or sometimes in production just to go or I’ll go poke around in our production. How do we have it set up? Are we set up to follow the best practices? What exactly? How does DHCP work? You know, what packets are being sent? So yeah, that’s the way I would do it. You know, I would get, I would capture the packets. I will see them going back and forth also when I request DHCP sends a request here and then I get an acknowledgement. I would see those things. I’m like, okay, so now I understand. So when I’m troubleshooting those things and somebody tells me, hey, I’m not getting any response from the DHCP server. So then I know, okay, well then let me go check, start at the cable, right? Like that was one thing that when I was a manager, I would always tell people start at the layer one, right? Like you do all this advanced troubleshooting, but you forgot to check that their cable was unplugged. You know, not that that hasn’t happened to me. [Laughter] I’ve spent several minutes troubleshooting this and I’m like, okay, I’ve exhausted everything. I can’t think of anything. Oh, why don’t I just check the cable? The cable is kinked or is bent or it’s not pushed in all the way, right? But yeah, that’s the way I study. I can’t just read the whole thing and hope that I maintained all of it. I just, as soon as I see it, all right, let me go see if I can do it. If I can do it better. If I can understand exactly how this worked. And I think that’s what’s been beneficial for me is so when those instructions don’t lead you exactly how it says, and you know, I’ve already like, okay, I have my own steps, right? Let me process that. What else would I try? This is trying to communicate out there. What are steps three and four? Like where does it need to go? Where are all these hops where it needs to go? At what point is it failing? And then you deduce, finally get to where the problem is, right?

Manuel: And that also helps kind of understand, especially some more complex problems, right? Because just reading a book, and I would say that that’s kind of similar to what we were doing like in college, right? They don’t teach you anything. It’s a lot of book knowledge, a lot of theory. You’re studying for tests, whereas like certifications, you can do that. It sounds like kind of the recommendation is don’t just study to pass a test, study to actually learn the material, implement it on hands-on, especially if you’re somebody who’s new, kind of going through taking that opportunity. Let me break that. Let me figure this out so that when you get asked a question in an interview, and I’ve seen that where people will have something on their resume, you know, like MCSA, and hey, okay, we’ll explain how you configure this, or, you know, I’m skilled in DHCP or DNS. Okay, well, explain to me how DNS works. Oh, well, that’s how names resolve. Okay, but what’s the process, right? Not understanding the concept completely.

Oscar: Yeah, that’s key, right? Like even to my kids now, we tell them, you know, don’t study to pass the exam, because later on when you take a higher level class, you’re not going to remember that, right? I mean, it’s summertime comes, you forget everything, right? So it’s better if you just learn what it’s actually doing and what you’re actually doing. And the best recommendation I have is learn multiple ways of doing it, right? I mean, with computers, there isn’t just one way of doing it. And I’ve done that in interviews before, you know, they’ll ask me, how would you do this? And you know, if you say, well, the Microsoft way or the Cisco way is like this, but I’ve learned that this in my environment didn’t work and I had to do it this and that way. And you just show them that, okay, you understand what that process is, right? You don’t just, you’re not just spewing off some textbook line, right? Like I tried this the recommended way and it works in a perfect environment, but that’s not usually the case in IT. And if you can tell them, you know, but I’ve done it this other way or I’ve done it two or three different ways in different places that I’ve worked, they’re going to be happy with that. They’re going to take that answer because they see that you understand the process, what the end goal is, right? You do not have to go on that straight line. If you go this way, that way, this way, as long as you get to that end result, the best way that for that environment, they’ll be happy with that. So yeah, my key is learn it, understand it, don’t just learn the answer. That’s not… [Laughter] It might get you that certification. You might, but in the long run, that’s not going to benefit you at all.

Manuel: Yeah, you’re not developing that critical thinking that’s required for these type of roles. So you already touched on it a little bit. So as you’re kind of going through promotions are coming up and some people aren’t happy with it, but at some point you kind of work your way up here in this government role and become a manager. So now we’re going to cross paths again. And I think this is important because you’ve already said that you never know who you’re going to run into again, when that might happen. And at some point you had an opening here and I was also working for a government agency. We were different government agencies and I had asked you, you guys were doing virtualization with servers, right? So at this point ESX, I had messed with it a little bit, but we were doing Workstations, right? So I’m stuck. I don’t want to say I’m stuck, but I am limited to just on an individual PC. So I understood virtualization technology, but you’re telling me about servers and, hey, I can move it from here to here and at most I’m losing a ping packet. And that to me was just like, I couldn’t really grasp it. But I understood it, but you’re just like, how is that possible? So I went in and I applied and luckily again through, you did give me a recommendation and said, hey, I know that you have a couple certifications and I think I had like my XP one, because I was doing technician type work, not really server work. And your recommendation was like, hey, I think you should do at a time, I was pretty sure it was Server 2003. You recommended, hey, start getting that certification. I know you’ve messed with it a little bit, but actually go through same thing, right? So I was able to develop enough of that knowledge to be able to speak to it. I messed around with it in my home lab and eventually that was a panel interview. So it wasn’t like you were the one hiring me, right? There was a panel. So I had to go through. But once I got hired, what was that experience like having someone that you know and also someone that’s a friend and being their manager? So I know for you, one of the first things that you told me is, are you going to be okay separating friendship from work and understanding that if I tell you to do something, you know, as the manager, you have to do it, right? So kind of, I know my experience is one way, but I’m just curious, you doing it, you know, I got it from the bottom or from the top down, kind of what was your experience in that type of situation?

Oscar: Yeah, for sure. So for me, like I said, the virtualization, I almost, I would say I almost fell in love with it, right? Like it was so intriguing to me, it was so fun to me. I know that’s kind of nerdy and stuff, but that was fun to me. So yeah, we’re doing these things and I’m like, hey, Manny, I want you to learn. I like when other people are learning, right? I’m like, hey, Manny, I know you’re doing the desktop stuff there, but we’re doing a lot bigger things here and we have the freedom here and we have this position. So yeah, come on over, you know, and like we talked about earlier, I wouldn’t recommend you if I thought, hey, he’s going to come in here and just not do anything and not want to do anything. That’s the first thing I was like, yeah, Manny, he would be great for this position. So but yeah, I talked to you and I said, hey, you know, as long as you don’t have a problem, I’m already a manager here, but if you don’t have a problem with me telling you, hey, go do this job or go do some of the things that I don’t want to do, right? I mean, that’s as long as you’re okay with that, then I was okay with that. I could separate that, but I know that that becomes difficult because now it’s us, them, right? I was with the them part. I was with the management side, right? I’m no longer just an employee or a coworker, you know, when it’s time to hang out afterwards. It’s not like, hey, let’s invite Oscar. Now it’s like, oh, you don’t invite the manager, we do our own thing here. But I didn’t have a problem with it. You and I, I felt we had a good friendship. I felt like I’m not a dictator. I’m pretty open to people telling me, hey, I don’t like when you tell me this or I don’t like when you speak to me like that or anything like that. So I was pretty open to, I didn’t have an issue at all. I mean, I’m not the kind of manager where like, I’ll put you down or, hey, you have to do it because I say, you know, we can have a conversation. And at the end of it, I mean, my say has a little more, but you know, that’s great. You told me why you didn’t want to do it. That’s, that’s, I understand. I take all that input, but you know, I’m following direction from even higher up. So I don’t like it either, but you still have to do it, right? But yeah, I didn’t have a problem. I didn’t think it was weird. I thought I was bringing on a great employee. I mean, like, like I said, I was willing to put my name alongside that. And you did great, right? You excelled there. And I knew even when we sent you to, to get your VMware certification, you were up for it. The same way I was, right? You weren’t like, like some of our other employees were like, oh, I don’t want to take that. Or that’s not really for me. I don’t need to do it. Like what’s the benefit? Well, you might not have a benefit right now. You’re not going to get paid more because you passed this certification. But you’re going to know more. You’re going to learn more. And maybe it opens other doors for you. And yeah, I was never afraid like, oh, Manny’s, he’s going to leave. If he gets this certification, let me not send him to this training. You know, it was just, I was like, no, you take it. Go, it did great things for me. It’s got me jumpstarted. You go ahead and do it. And that’s the way I’ve always tried to be. Just the people that I’m supervising or managing. If they move up, if they learn more, that’s great. That’s great for me while they’re still here because, you know, surround yourself with smart people, right? Not people that don’t want to do anything or don’t want to learn. So I was like, yeah, why wouldn’t I want to have smart people working for me? [Laughter] So yeah, I didn’t have any issue at all separating those two things outside of work. We can hang out and have no problem at work. I didn’t have a problem telling you, hey, Manny, go do this. Or, hey, you didn’t do a good job on this or I don’t like the way you did that. I didn’t, I didn’t see any issue. It was not a big deal for me.

Manuel: Yeah. Just couldn’t talk bad about the boss outside of work.

Oscar: Yeah, I mean, you could. We’ve always had a relationship where you could say things, you know, over some beers and that’s, I mean, man, you’re allowed your opinion, you know. [Laughter]

Manuel: So, and one of the other things you came out came about during that time is you became a manager of your peers. So it’s different. I already came in and you are already the manager, right? So you are already going to be my boss. But it sounds like that might be a struggle is kind of when you’re peers and now that us versus them, like now you have to go up a step. That sounds like it would be difficult. And or at least challenging, right? Just trying to be able to go through and have that separation because that’s a little bit more drastic, right? I had time before we had worked together. Now I’m coming in here, but moving there. So what was that process like and what did you learn from that?

Oscar: Yeah, it was a little difficult because there is as much as you don’t want it to be, there is that us versus them mentality. And you know, there’s always people that feel like maybe they deserved it or you didn’t deserve it. But as long as you’re okay with it and you know that you put in the work to get that position, that’s why I never had a problem, right? Like it wasn’t like these positions were handed to me. I knew I was putting in the time, the effort and the work. So it was a little difficult just in the sense that now I have to tell people what to do. People that I was just co-workers with, right? We were doing the same thing, complaining about management, right? And now I can no longer do that because I am management, right? So now, and you know, I’m getting directed from different people now. So now I’m starting to see the other side like, oh, that’s why my manager used to tell me I had to do this. I’m starting to see the budget side that we can’t just spend frivolously, right? Like just at will. Like, yes, this solution will solve a lot of our problems, but that money isn’t there. It just isn’t there, right? So now I’m seeing the other side and I’m seeing like, oh, all those times we were complaining about stuff. My manager wanted to help, but it just wasn’t feasible, right? It wasn’t something that could be done. So it was good to see that I don’t like the management role. That’s not the way I wanted to continue on. Um, I prefer the technical side 100%. Um, I know you had a similar experience when you became manager [Laughter] and you quickly saw that, you know, that wasn’t the role for you either. And you know, and you would reach out to me like, hey, is this normal? I’m like, yeah, it’s normal. You know, that’s what management is. And it’s not the best and it’s not for everybody, right? Um, some of the best managers that I’ve had were not very technical, right? Um, they were just good managers. Like they inspired me to do more. They got the best out of me. So that’s what I try to do. But my internal struggle is I wanted to stay on the technical side. So maybe I wasn’t the best manager, which was stress onto myself because I couldn’t be the best I wanted to be as a manager because my heart wasn’t in it, right? Like that’s not where I wanted to be. I would rather spend the eight hours with my head into the technical side, the troubleshooting side, that maybe, you know, there’s only so much you can split your time. So I couldn’t be the best at this and the best of this, like something had to give. And, you know, I’m sure as a manager, there were some stuff that I left off that I didn’t do to my best ability just because that’s not where I wanted to be. That’s not, I didn’t want to lose my technical skills.

Manuel: And then at some point, right, you decided that, again, management wasn’t for you, right? Like you can’t, it’s that crossroads. As much as you want to try and be good at both, it’s hard, right? You can’t, you can’t do both. You’re, you’re, you’re not a great technical person and you’re also not a great manager, you know, and it kind of slides back. And I know for a little bit, you actually kind of, I want to say self demoted, but you ended up taking another position to where you became now again. An individual contributor and continue to kind of grow your skill set in that area. Being in that management position, though, did it help? Were there skills that you picked up there that helped you later on as you became an individual contributor? Like, again, you kind of got to peek behind the curtain, like, oh, that’s why we can’t do things. You know, that’s why we can’t just buy the software that will really help us. But what were some of the, like, the takeaways that you got from being a manager, being in that role?

Oscar: Yeah, it was very helpful. Like you said, I got to peek, right? I got to see what it is from the other side. I got to see that sometimes the complaints from the employees are not valid, right? You don’t know who the manager is having to answer to and what constraints that manager has, right? And it helped me get in those high-level meetings, right? How to speak to those people. And it was helpful because I knew the technical side, but I knew in these meetings, I couldn’t start throwing out protocols and technical jargon that they have no idea and don’t care about, right? They want to know, bottom line, how do we get this to work? What’s it going to take to work? Do we have the knowledge, the capacity? You know, it got me into those meetings that I would have never gone to had I not become a manager. So it kind of rounded me out a little bit to where now I think of both sides. Like, yeah, this is great. This is great software. This is great tool that we need. But now I look at it the other way. It’s like, okay, if we buy this, there’s only a set amount of dollars, right? If I spend some here, I got to take away from somewhere else. Where else can I take away? Am I taking away benefits from my employees to deploy this system? So it got me to see the whole picture and not just from the technical side. Like, why aren’t we using the best tool to do this job? Well, because the best tool costs a lot more. And if we spend that money there, then all these other, it’s like a domino, right? And you have to know which dominoes to pull and tug at without dropping the whole thing. And the manager I had there would also show me those things. And he would share a lot of things with me. It’s like, I would love to do this for you guys. But here are the three things that would be messed up if I did do that. And yeah, when somebody explains that to you, you’re like, okay, then you’re not just doing it. Because you want to be mean to us, right? I mean, there’s reasoning. Even if I don’t like your reasoning, at least you explain to me. Like I said, I’ve had great managers and they were willing to share that and have me learn under them, really. And yeah, it was beneficial. As much as I don’t want to be a manager, I don’t regret it because it did help me see the full picture of a business and how a business is run and all the different things that everything is related and how one little change here can have a broad effect. And that’s something I would tell my employees is like, okay, when you make this change, there’s other things happen. Like it’s for you, it’s a simple little change on this switch. And you think like, ah, what’s the big deal? Well, there’s repercussions to all your changes, right? So I would get them to think, okay, if you hit enter on that, what’s happening? What else? You’re going to fix this one little problem, but what else could get messed up? And, you know, I’ve had employees who just hit enter and was like, I don’t know why that site is not working anymore. I’m like, well, because remember when I told you to think about the things that could go wrong? And you just like, you were so focused on fixing that one little problem that you didn’t see all the other things that were going to get messed up. So yeah, being a manager, that’s what that taught me is look at the broad, look at the big picture and pick the best thing for the whole, for the whole unit, right? Not just for that one little section. Think bigger, think bigger than yourself and your group and what benefits your team. Think the whole department as a whole.

Manuel: No, that’s good to know. And now we’re coming up here on the end. And now you’ve moved into the role you’re at now, right? Which is it’s based on what you’ve talked about, right? Having all that technical experience, also having some of that management, being able to talk to different people, you’re now in a role that’s a, it’s called the Technical Account Manager, right? And that sounds fancy, but kind of explain what is a Technical Account Manager and kind of what do you do? And now that you’ve had all this different experience, what do you think helped you land that type of role? What’s helped, you know, just kind of in the best way you can, kind of summarize and kind of start putting it together and say, hey, here’s all these divots and pieces. This is what helped. This I didn’t, you know, to kind of get where you’re at now.

Oscar: Yeah, this position kind of brings it all together, right? I mean, I’m in meetings with CFOs. I’m in meetings with CEOs, DevOps, Engineers, and you kind of have to know how to speak to every single one at their own level, right? Or in their own terminology, because it is different. It’s a lot different. So my previous experience has kind of trained me for that or prepared me for that. That I, you know, when you’re talking to a CFO, like I said, you don’t want to just start all this technical jargon that they have no idea what it means. How does it affect them? They really don’t, you kind of lose that room, right? If you have, you’re in a room full of financial people and you’re talking TCP/IP and OSI model and they’re just like, what are you talking about? [Laughter] How does that affect me? Like, what are you going to do to fix me? So, yeah, all those places that I’ve been at just kind of prepared me for this job that requires you to have all those things, right? You got to have technical skills, which I like, and you have to have soft skills. If I have to give, deliver, if I have to deliver some bad news to the customer, I can’t just be like, oh, it’s your fault or you’re down and it is what it is. Like, sorry. You know what I mean? You have to have these soft skills that people should learn along the way. Yeah, like that’s great. You’re great technically. That’s awesome. You specialize in this one thing. That is great. But if you can’t talk to people, nobody’s going to listen to your expertise, right? You might be an expert, but if you can’t get that message across to me, where’s the benefit? There is no benefit. So that’s another one of my tips that I’ve learned along the way is that it doesn’t matter that you’re the smartest person on there. If you can’t deliver that message to me, there’s no value there, right? I stop. People stop listening when they either you’re talking down to them or you can’t give me something that I need, right? People, you got to give them what they’re looking for. So yeah, this job just kind of encompasses it all and I have to.

Manuel: That knowledge is lost, really. I mean, yeah, it’s here. But if you’re not able to kind of give that knowledge to somebody else or part that information, I mean, it’s almost like not having it at that point.

Oscar: It is. Yeah, it’s key. Like you might have all the answers, but if you can’t convey that to the customer, it doesn’t help them at all. So you have to, as much as I say, train for the technical skills, but also train on the soft skills. You know, learn how to speak to somebody. And a lot of things that help is, you know, you’re in IT, so I’m sure you get a lot of calls from family members, right? They have no idea. Fix my phone, fix my computer. And, you know, a lot of people are like, I don’t do that. Those are the practice. That’s when you need a practice, right? When I’m explaining to, let’s say my mom, I can’t explain to her anything IT, right? I have to tell her, you know, click this button on the right and I have to point her exactly. And then my wife always says, like, you’re so calm in those situations. Like my mom is like, ah, this is not working or family members like, this is not working. I need this up. It’s like, well, that’s my practice, right? Like this, those are the times that you practice and who better with them with your family? They’re not going to hate you or they’re not going to fire you. [Laughter] They’re going to call you the next time it happens anyway. So, you know, practice yourself skills, like stay calm. Like that’s that’s perfect opportunity to practice that you don’t think of as practice, but it is that, you know, I stay calm. I lead them. I break it down to the lowest level without making them feel dumb or calling them dumb. Like what, you don’t know how to use your computer, hang up on them. You know, nothing like that just, this is what you need to do. This is what’s happening. Click here, click here. You see this arrow? Like I don’t even give it the right names, right? Like I just don’t look off to the right. You’ll see a little icon with this picture on it. Tap on it fast. And you know, that’s that’s been through my whole IT career. I’ve always taken those opportunities to just kind of not let it get to me and just help somebody who doesn’t know, they’re obviously calling you for a reason, right? They need help, help them out. Why, why just be like, oh, you should know this. And I’ve never, ever taken that attitude. I’ve always taken that approach as this is practice. Let me, let me stay calm, even though inside you’re frustrated. You’re like, oh my God, I could be done with this in one minute. But yeah, let’s take those opportunities, man. Those are, those are key. Just learn those soft skills, soft skills are important.

Manuel: And especially if you’re not doing any kind of formal training or if you feel uncomfortable, at least to kind of get started. I don’t know about for you, but same thing. I’ve had family members call me and even just within my siblings and my parents, like people ask me like, what do you do? And I always used to do like the general like, oh, I’m in IT, right? But when they’ve asked me like, what, what is it you do within IT? And I’ve tried to, you know, I’ve jumped around a couple of different jobs, you know, every two to three years and just explaining what it is I do. Like what is a Virtualization Engineer taking the time to find a way to explain it in layman terms like analogies, right? Because it’s the same thing like a CEO, a CFO, they don’t know about technology. They don’t care. But how do you explain what you do? What is this problem? Have you, have you come into that and have you found ways to kind of convey that type of, of message apart from just having the, hey, walking through somebody, explaining how to go through a process. Do you also have to explain kind of what you do to somebody who’s not technical? And it could be family. I know that I’ve had customers that like, I see you in here, you’re behind a laptop. What do you do?

Oscar: Yeah, that’s always hard, right? Because how do you explain that? Right? Like they don’t really want to know what you do every minute of the day, right? They just want a broad general summarization of what you do. But it’s so, it’s a little of everything, I guess it’s difficult to explain. Even, you know, people from my previous jobs that are they’ll ask me like, Oh, so what do you do in your new job now or at your current position? And it’s just, I guess it’s a little difficult for me to explain. But yeah, I would say I just get to use my technical skills and my soft skills all in one place. That’s, that’s really what summarizes my current position. I have to stay sharp technically could be when you’re dealing with Engineers and DevOps, and they’re speaking those technical terms. Now, I’m not saying I know all of them, but I can get the idea of what they’re trying to do, right? And I can help them out. And it’s the same thing, right? They’re, they’re calling me because they need assistance. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be calling me or they wouldn’t be asking me for help. So my job now is to take those troubleshooting skills and try to figure out what it is that they’re real problem is, right? For them, it’s always on fire, right? Everything is emergency, but let me get to the bottom of this emergency. What is the real problem? And, you know, I’ve had customers telling me, Hey, I need this up and running. I’m down. And then when you get to talking to them, they’re like, Oh, yeah, just whenever you get a chance to, it’s like, that’s when the soft skills come in, right? If you don’t know how to talk to them, like, Okay, let me ask some questions. What, what is really happening? You’re saying you’re down, but what, what does that really mean? Like, what’s the effect? What effect is it having on you? What, what is down? How long has it been down? And what are we talking about? And then they’re like, blah, blah, blah, it’s, but whenever you get a chance, just, just help me out. So then this thing that turned out to be an emergency, now it’s like, well, when you come back on Monday is okay. [Laughter] It’s like, you know, but if you don’t have those soft skills and able to ask people questions, you’re running around like your head’s on fire, right? Cause you got to get them up and running, come to find out. They don’t even really need anything. It was just something simple, you know, it’s like, and you know how that is sometimes when we’ve gotten stuck, we’ll call each other is like, you get so focused on solving the problem that you almost forget what the problem is. And you know, when we’ve had discussions, you’re like, I just, I’m not seeing it. I’m like, okay, well, have you looked at this? Have you looked at that? Oh, I hadn’t thought about that. Let me look at that. I was like, oh, yep, that’s what it is. Or I just, just in your head, you figure it out yourself because now you’re not just focused on that problem, right? So yeah, it’s, I would say our previous jobs kind of prepared us for this, for this job that or this role that we’re in now, I think pretty well.

Manuel: Yeah. And that’s definitely one of those things. And I know I’m very guilty of it is just getting that tunnel vision, right? Like you’re so focused on this thing, you know, like you mentioned with one of your, you know, your other employees is just making this change or doing this. What is it going to affect? Like you have to kind of remember to think bigger or think broader and say, why made this change? It’s not working. It’s not doing this. Why? Well, you’re hyper focused here. You just sometimes it just doesn’t even take much and just broaden a little bit. I’m like, oh, wait a minute. Over, you know, if I’m going to make this change, if I would just right over here, here’s my problem.

Oscar: Yep.

Manuel: So just kind of going through that. And, you know, I know we’ve kind of covered, you know, a wide range of topics, a number of roles. Is there anything else that you can think of that might be, hey, something that maybe I didn’t ask you or, you know, another helpful information for somebody that’s, again, either coming into tech or maybe they’ve been around a while like, hey, I’ve been in this role for five or six years, right? I’ve done a couple different jobs. Like what, what would be your recommendation now? Like if you were starting over, if you were looking to make that next jump, like, you know, what type of research are you and what skill sets do you think would be helpful to have?

Oscar: Yeah, I mean, I would always recommend sometimes people think like, oh, I’ve been in a, this different career is too late for me to get into it. And I tell them, no, it’s not. If you’re able to learn and you want to learn, it’s never too late. Get into it. If that’s something you like. It’s just so many different things you can go and do, whether you like databases, whether you like network and infrastructure, internet of things. I mean, everything is connected now. It’s like somehow your current position that you think would not be related to IT. It’s somewhere it is. It is. I mean, if you look at sports, I really love sports, right? Going back, I wish I would have gone into the sports industry. That would have been my dream job dealing with sports and technology at the same time would have been somewhere where I would have loved to have been, you know, so those are the recommendations I give to my kids or to people who asked me, find what you’re passionate or what you like and and you want to be an IT. I’m sure there’s IT behind it somewhere. You don’t see it, but there is. As a matter of fact, the other day I was watching golf and they showed what goes into and I really love golf. I love playing golf. What goes into, you know, when you’re watching golf broadcasts and you see the ball tracker, the things that go into that data, it’s amazing. Like they have full trailers, full satellites just to track that little ball from the tee to the fairway and they have people on the ground with walkie-talkie satellites. They’re carrying GPS devices, so they know exactly how far that ball was hit and you would never see that. You would never think of that if you’re just watching golf, right? Same with football. I mean, they know the spin rate of these footballs, the baseballs that are hit. It’s so much information now and behind all that is a computer network. It’s IT behind there. You know, none of that is possible without IT and I would never tell somebody, oh, you’re too old or it’s too late. You’re only an accountant or no, if you like IT, get into it. There’s something related to what you already know that would give you a leg up on somebody else. You know what I mean? That’s, yeah, get into it, for sure. Don’t shy away.

Manuel: The only thing I would probably add on to that is, if you’re going to be in IT, if you want to be successful, if you want to kind of get into it and be successful, is you have to be okay with change and you have to be okay with learning. Because you said, I mean, stuff is changing. It’s happening all the time. If you’re just someone that says, oh, I’m in and I’m going to stay and this is what I’m going to do, I’ve seen it. I just don’t know if you’ve had any experience with people who are just like, oh, this is what I do and that’s it. I’m not going to learn that their career probably doesn’t progress. And at some point, especially with the way the speed the technology is changing now, they’re probably not there for very long.

Oscar: Yeah, it’ll leave you, right? It’ll pass you by for sure. If you’re not constantly learning something new, whatever it may be, it doesn’t matter what it is. If you’re just thinking, oh, this job is great, it pays really well, let me just sit back and relax. You might be okay right now, but going forward, you’re not going to be. Just continue to learn something. Whether it is you’re reading a book, whether you’re reading an application, how to program, how to troubleshoot, just read something to keep your brain going and thinking of what your next position is, right? Once, like I said before, once you feel like you’re not pulling anything out of that job, then maybe it’s time to look somewhere else at the next challenge. And you don’t always have to be moving up. I mean, some people are driven by money, right? Not everybody is though. Like I said, early on, I wasn’t looking for money. I was looking for that stability and that opportunity to learn. Throughout my career in the government, there were plenty of opportunities to leave for more money, but there was a lot of things that I’d be sacrificing, right? My time with my family, my ability to learn, like where else could I have several racks of a lab environment? You know, I mean, it’s like all that. Yes, there’s no money attached to that, but that’s money that I would have to spend at my house, let’s say. So at the end of the day, maybe I’ll be making the same thing. Like on paper, it looks like, oh, that’s a lot more money, you should take it. But what I’m gaining, it wasn’t worth it for me. So, but yeah, just keep learning. I mean, learning as much as you can, any chance you get, just, I think that’s how you stay young. You just keep learning. And things are, like you’re saying, it’s changing so fast, like with AI now and just the speed, computer speeds now to what it was when we first started. I mean, that’s like, I would have never imagined. I mean, like you said, I had to wait several minutes for a simple page to load up. So much that you were just like, no, just give me the text. Like, don’t show me the image. I don’t even care about the image. Just show me the text and load. And now it’s like instant, right? I mean,

Manuel: And don’t have somebody pick up the phone right in the middle. And then you gotta reload that page afterwards. Like I had that happen a couple of times, like, like, oh, what’s going, oh, why is it not loading? Somebody picked up the phone and there goes my dial up modem.

Oscar: Yep, hit connect, walk away. And now it’s just like, no, no, I need everything so fast. Like all the information I need as fast as possible. It’s like, yeah, just just there’s so much out there. I guess that’s one thing I would say is there’s so much information out there that’s overwhelming. And I think that’s what turns off a lot of people from getting into IT is like, where do I start? You know, it’s like, I don’t know what I like. I don’t know what I don’t like. So just pick something and see if you like it. Give it a shot. If you know somebody who does that, ask them questions like I did before, you know, I would annoy the people that I wanted to know what their job was, you know, like, what do you do? Like, how does it work? Can you tell me everything? So it’s kind of like the interview we’re having now, but at work. So I could just imagine the other person was like, Oh my God, Oscar stop asking me questions. But you know, that’s how I knew, okay, I don’t want to do what that guy does or what that girl does. But yeah, just ask questions. I mean, and don’t be afraid. Sometimes you have to take a step down in order to progress, right? I mean, I’ve known several people like, Oh, I’m not going to take a level one job. And I’m like, yeah, but that level one leads to a four in this amount of time. Whereas where you’re at now, waiting for that level four to open up, that’s a hard job to get, you know, you want a senior job right from the get go. Sometimes you have to take that lower job to, to progress and just have an open mind and learn as much as you can and ask people who are doing it, just ask them questions, ask as much as you can, as much as they’re willing to share, right? And usually people are people in IT, they’re willing to share and talk about their position and what they do. They’re pretty open. It’s a pretty good community. So yeah.

Manuel: I agree. And that’s kind of why I started this is, you know, AI and cybersecurity has always been like the hot topic. People are like, I want to get into cybersecurity. I want to get into cybersecurity. And they would ask me about it. And like, listen, like, I know about security because security is it’s kind of everybody’s job, right? If you’re the network person, the server person, the desktop person, like, you have to keep everything secure. It’s misleading to people because they think that that’s it or they see these high paying roles. But usually those people that are making those, that money is they’ve started as a desktop person, then they did the server and then they did the network. So when they get to cybersecurity, they understand, like you said, Hey, understand what this is, how this works. And they kind of put it all together and say, Oh, okay, I’m successful. So when I see an alert or when I see, you know, this type of attack, I know what the impact is or what the, you know, the ramifications of this being breached could be. So hopefully, that’s kind of one of the goals with this podcast too is, you know, I want to have people from different experiences and then bring in different roles. Like, I’ve had a lot of server, network people who that’s kind of the realm that I’m in. And that’s people that I know, but I’m starting to branch out and just understand. And I’m glad you brought up the golf part, right? Like, Hey, there’s so much, there’s so much technology behind that. I mean, there’s project management, there’s, you know, obviously, there’s security, there’s QA testers, I’m going to have somebody to come on, but there’s just technology’s everywhere. So if you want to get an IT, there’s something that will interest you and don’t be afraid to change. Like, don’t think I’m in cybersecurity, I have to stay here, jump around, go somewhere else.

Oscar: Yeah, I mean, definitely, I wouldn’t say leave your job, maybe study while you still have a job, you know, that’s always better. And usually jobs are easier to find when you have a job, right? But yeah, don’t don’t be afraid. I mean, it’s just so much, so much technology and it doesn’t matter how advanced things get or how fast things get. At the end of the day, it’s still a network, right? There’s still connections to be made might be different protocols that are connecting it different cables, different wiring. But at the end of the day, it’s the same thing. Networks need to connect and talk to other networks. So if you’re into networking, because you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I wouldn’t get into networking now. But behind the scenes that that’s what it is. The concepts are still the same. Speeds are faster. Technology is different. But the concept is still the same. Same with security. There’s always going to be a need for security. There’s gold mines behind these corporations, right, that people are trying to get to and need to secure. That’s always going to be something that’s necessary. So yeah, that’s something that you find people in or your followers are looking for that. Yeah, that’s those those aren’t going away. No matter how much AI, even AI, right behind it, there’s got to be somebody programming that AI and working on a computer to help these machine learning modules or things. There’s somebody behind it. There’s a job there. So just some jobs will be eliminated, obviously, but stop looking at that as a fear like, Oh, my job is going to be eliminated. No, think about what job it’s going to create that you can get into. And I think it’ll be a better approach. That way, rather than thinking, Oh, this is going to eliminate my job. You won’t need a Systems Administrator anymore. It’s like, No, just it’s going to make that it’s kind of like my previous job, right? I automated that part to get that out of the way. So I have freedom to do something else. And if you take that outlook and you’re open minded about that, some doors will open up as long as you’re willing to put in the work. But yeah.

Manuel: I appreciate you taking the time to kind of come in and tell kind of your experiences and, you know, your tips for people and things that have benefited you and maybe things that probably didn’t so that, you know, people can learn from your experiences and hopefully do better and be able to progress moving forward. So appreciate you coming out and hanging out and being the guests and the first the first guests in the new studio.

Oscar: Yeah, thanks for the invite. And yeah, it was a good time. It was a great time. I look forward to coming back.

Manuel: Sounds good. Take it easy.

Oscar: Cool. Thanks.